Founded On Purpose

FoP S2: Amelia Lin
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Kt: Welcome to Founded On Purpose I'm your host Kt McBratney and this season we're focused all about after the exit Today we're talking with Amelia Lin who co-founded Honeycomb in 2018 and led the company as its CEO to acquisition by Ello in 2024 also the co-founder of the non-profit VC-backed moms and we're gonna get into both of them

today to the show

Amelia Lin: Thank you so much for having me I'm thrilled to be here I

Kt: You have such an interesting story All of our guests do but what I really appreciate about how you share it is you think about not just sharing your authentic journey but how other people can learn practical tips from it Um and that's what I'm hoping to get into today

Season one we all had the same eight questions of every guest And so I wanna start with the question that led every episode of season one In what word What's your purpose And then how did that guide your journey to starting a company and the exit [00:01:00] decision

Amelia Lin: Oh that's so good I think there's one thing answer in two different ways I think there's What motivates me on a day-to-day basis which I think has been very very consistent over time and has been the same answer for a very very long time even as I've gone through a lot of different careers because I didn't start out in tech I really didn't Um and then I guess the part two of that will be what do I see as my purpose going forward which I think Has also been true for a long time but feels more crystallized now I might not have been able to express it quite as well if you'd asked me you know five years ago So I think for number one like what motivates me on a day-to-day basis um I have always loved I've always loved building new things with other people who are excited about [00:02:00] building them Like really um I I used to work in science research in research labs and that sounds to like a lot of people of very different but it's the exact same motivation We were working on really cool cutting edge technology It was um you know and and so in funny ways to me it actually feels very similar to what you do at a startup You're not just taking a machine that's already working and figuring out how to make it run just a little bit better You're trying to create something that It doesn't exist but you think should exist And you think the world would be really awesome if it existed and you're doing that with other people who are excited about it So that's really what gets me out of bed every day Um it's what brings me a lot of joy um and what energizes me So that's part one Part two is maybe the bigger purpose Um so this takes [00:03:00] me to a hypothetical that uh my partner here and I were talking about years ago which is this imaginary scenario A lot of people talk about at some point of okay pretend you're like a billionaire and whatever Money's no object and you're retired and what are you doing right Like what are you doing after everything you know whatever you you don't have to worry about money You don't have to worry about stability So um I'll give Keira's answer and then I'll give my answer K's answer was that he was um secure's a software engineer by trade and he was like I would like to teach Maybe I would teach people to code He was like maybe I could figure out how to be like a a substitute teacher or something I wanna teach people to code He just he loves loves loves coding And then my answer was I was like I think I would wanna find a way to give back to the founder community I was like some I wanna give back to the startup ecosystem like this industry and this [00:04:00] EI think of it really as an ecosystem I use that word a lot has given me so much I'm so grateful to it Like I absolutely love you know my my job my career This industry has given me so many opportunities and opened doors for me when it didn't have to open those doors And I just have had such a fun time in it And I would love to enable that for other people hope other people who are earlier on that journey And I was like that's what I wanna spend all my free time with is like Finding a way to give back to the ecosystem and like supporting the next generation of startups and founders So uh very very linked to what I do now with VC backed moms And so it's so funny because I don't think when when we started VC backed moms I don't think it occurred in my head that it was remotely related to that really big pie in the sky kind of dream But that to me [00:05:00] does feel like absolutely Kind of a like a life purpose

Kt: Totally tracks to the roles that you have now It's so yeah the through line is so clear It's so interesting how Hindsight and even like those questions as hypotheticals because I was doing the same thing like oh what if we won the the lottery what would we

Amelia Lin: right

Kt: I'm like

Amelia Lin: Right

Kt: start living that life now Like smaller choices I I think I posted about it on LinkedIn about like we don't have to wait until we hopefully win the lottery or the other assumption is that your company got acquired so you're living that life now where money is no object and you know all of these things Which part of the reason that I wanted to focus on after the exit for this season was like yes some people that is the reality Most people it's life changing in different ways And um kind of peel back the curtain curtain on the reality of that I wanna dig into something you said um a bit about about the doors that have been open for you And in previous [00:06:00] interviews and podcasts you've done you've talked about how important access to especially education and technology have been in your life

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: more about that

Amelia Lin: Yeah so and I think this really ties to you know what I do now at L It's funny because I almost feel like the two things that I gave you of like here's the motivation I'm like oh yeah that tracks just so much everything that I do in my day now of course like yet another company you know building something that I think is gonna that I think the world needs and like working with people to make that happen Um and then also like trying to see how um we can change the startup ecosystem as a whole Um but So education in my life I think really came from my parents and my family So my my mom and my dad grew up in China during the cultural revolution which was a time of great civil upheaval in China And the impact that it had on both of them was that they actually didn't [00:07:00] get schooling um for most of their Lives So my dad's formal schooling at 12 years old Um his parents both of his parents and his older siblings were sent to labor camps And so at age 12 he became responsible for caring and feeding and somehow providing for himself and all of his younger siblings Um so you could imagine at age 12 like what kind of responsibility that is So he went out he started figuring out how to try to make some money you know fix people's watches selfish whatever was needed you know to kind of get income He became the like house um chef So he was really caring for um his his younger siblings at a very very young age Um but he always missed the opportunity to go to school And so my dad would do the he and he did these crazy things Like he would try to teach himself math out of [00:08:00] textbooks He would try he tried to um he actually taught himself English from smuggled books out of the Soviet Union So try to imagine like learning English from like Anna Carina You try like that's English

Kt: I

Amelia Lin: Uh it's totally bonkers

Kt: basic some Chinese and the languages are just very very very different

Amelia Lin: They're so different There's it's like it's not as though he is trying to learn English from like a basic primer It's like no no no We're going to take this really advanced complex novel and that's how you're gonna try and teach yourself English Um so just extremely extremely motivated um by this feeling of losing the opportunity of education And so um My dad has these crazy stories about how he came up He devised these systems where he he set up a mirror so that he could watch the pot of rice to see when it started to [00:09:00] boil while he was um reading the textbook so that he could like like just cra like figuring out how to multitask right So like he um like that's just how driven he was to try to figure out how to how to do this Um and so yeah my dad self-taught a lot um in life And then when he was um he was finally able to actually go back to school in his twenties So a really big gap in education before school became an option for him again And so he actually ended up coming to um he became an international student He came to college here in the States at San in San Francisco So he went to San Francisco State and got his computer science degree there Um And he was you know significantly older and all the other students at that time Um but and then my mom and my dad um both went on to get their master's um here in the US and stay here But the point is [00:10:00] that growing up education was seen as it was such a paramount value in our household And it was like school wasn't something that you come about Having to go to school was an absolute privilege You know my dad was like my parents would see me all the time Like I mean we would've given an arm and a leg just to have the opportunity to sit in the back of a classroom And so when that's your framing that you grew up with as a kid you have a very different view on what education um is and like what it can do for you So I was this kid who like absolutely loved school growing up Education was a huge huge thing In our household And it was like a source of joy You know I'd come home from school and my mom and dad would ask me what did you learn at school today And they were genuinely curious cause they're like wow that's cool that you're learning about biology We never got to learn about any of that stuff What did you learn You know they were genuinely like super [00:11:00] thirsty to hear what I had learned at school And they had such a joy for learning When I started taking calculus classes my dad was like can I borrow your textbook after you're done Like I've never really learned calculus and I would really love to like learn it And he would be trying to teach himself calculus outta my textbook And he'd be like Amelia I think so here's what I learned today I think it works this way And I'd be like no dad That's not quite how limits work Like they work this other way you know So imagine Um so so there was a real sense of actually loving learning like in our household it wasn't it really wasn't about um About kind of the grades or getting you know certain marks or certain achievements Um so anyway um that I think is a big reason why I ended up work I this is now the second time that I've worked in um ed tech So there's multiple companies I've worked at education technology um just because I [00:12:00] I mean I I do think you know it speaks to something in me of just like what kinds of opportunities it unlocks for you Um and I do think that that comes from that place in my life

Kt: And it also like it tracks to you know you started your

Amelia Lin: Sorry

Kt: you would go into academia

Amelia Lin: Yes

Kt: EdTech Right Um with of course many stops along the way And we'll we'll have a whole bunch of links in the show notes so people can follow along on the journey on the pieces we won't be able to get into what's what I'm hearing is this very clear through line not just of your purpose and your motivations but of your like value system and how learning education not for just the outcome just the achievement is just such a strong piece of who you are as a person and as a leader If if you met your academic self like your student self thinking I'm gonna teach this is gonna be I'm gonna do research I'm gonna teach this will be my life If you met her today your founder self what do you think would [00:13:00] surprise her the most about where you are

Amelia Lin: Oh my gosh I think so much Um but yeah to your point like my initial dream was when I so I studied physics when I was in undergrad um at Harvard And my goal at that time was to be a physics professor you know So like uh to your point right I I I idolized teachers I thought teachers were just the coolest people in the world And so I wanted to be a teacher And then I figured like professors seemed to be like the highest level of I was like well if I'm gonna be a teacher I wanna be like the best teacher right So I was like I think professors are like the highest teacher So so that was that was the reasoning behind me deciding that I was gonna be a physics professor Um I think a lot would be really surprising to her Um I think probably just that I would be in business at all I think uh it would've been a total shock to like freshman me Um Freshman year in college me to hear that I would go to business school someday I'd be like that What [00:14:00] what Like that would've been been so far off from my mind I would've been like no no no you have the wrong person Like what I don't like um uh let's see That would've been very surprising I think just that that I oh probably that I would be in technology honestly because growing up so both of my parents were software engineers Um and they worked in really big tech companies Um so uh think hp I think these um big telecom companies like Alcatel which most consumers I don't think are super familiar with But um and they used to tell me growing up Amelia don't ever go work in technology I said don't be like us Don't be a cog in a machine Go do something of your own And so that was my conception of technology growing up Like they actively discouraged me from working in tech They're like no no no Go do something where you have like control over your destiny Don't don't [00:15:00] be you know in this giant cubicle farm

Kt: And

Amelia Lin: So it's quite

Kt: You worked in technology but you did it your way

Amelia Lin: Yes exactly I was gonna say so I ended up working in technology in an extremely different context um from what they imagined So I do like to think I I have a yeah definitely uh haven't haven't ended up in cubicle farm at least not yet Um but that would be quite surprising to me

Kt: That would've been surprising to me As someone who knows you at this moment in time I'd be like what How did she get there Well

Amelia Lin: Yes

Kt: Okay so let's go to 2018 When you're founding Honeycomb you've worked in tech for a bit You've moved out of this uh physics professor dream into this new era of your journey And you've described building Kuma the intersection of AI and kids You said it felt like handling two nuclear topics but then as generative AI matured you all shifted away just from this pure curation model And then you went viral on TikTok and it crashed your servers because people were [00:16:00] generating like a photo on honeycomb like every second and millions of parents showed up to use the product to rave about it to tell it with their friend You've called that moment before Exhilarating exhausting and stressful Let's pick up right there Everyone has these dreams of going viral but you actually made the most out of it and made it not just a blip or a spike You made it into scale How did you approach that

Amelia Lin: Honestly it's funny um I think back to a really good uh a good founder friend of mine who um So she runs a a a consumer app that's quite large with many many millions of users And she once used this for I think I was asking her about you know oh like how did you like grow at the big whatever I was asking some question about growth and she's like Amelia we were like the six year overnight [00:17:00] success you know where she's like it seems like this big thing where I I think the you know the apps were featured them as App of the day and she and it could look that was the moment that they got all these downloads but the truth was that Um she's like behind the scenes we toiled for years and years and years and there's actually like so much that led up to that moment So I think of that phrase like the six year overnight success Um I do feel a little bit that way you know about us going viral on on TikTok like it it looks so random in the moment but Um really I give a lot of credit like to my co-founder to the team Um we spent a hell of a lot of time thinking about like what was the best way to grow We tried so much stuff that did not work you know tried many many [00:18:00] things There's just an endless list of like stuff to try and most of the time it doesn't work and you just keep going down the list cause you know that's sort of how the part goes The startups we had a thesis at social was generally a good channel for us and that we should be investing in it more than we were So there was that Um and we had been investing in it very intensely um for months um many months uh with the theory that we thought there was viral potential Um but like Yeah we had spent at that point a good eight months learning how to consistently go viral Actually Like we were actually pretty good at that point already at um organic social media Um we had amassed I think over a hundred thousand followers at that point um [00:19:00] either on TikTok or Instagram or both I kind of forget exactly where our accounts were and they had been zero but zero followers to the beginning of the year So we'd made like massive massive progress And so our knowledge of social media had was just a lot higher Um and actually that viral moment it didn't happen right away We released the feature in September the end of September Uh we were quite sure that it w had viral potential And so the feature to recap for people was um at that time uh we were a private family photo album Um honeycomb was very very and our our tar our our customers were first time mostly millennial moms Um and so like one tagline that people used for us which I really loved was it's like Instagram for Baby Spam So I don't remember which one of our users came up with that but I really liked that pri no they said it's private Instagram for baby spam So the idea was that it wasn't it was default [00:20:00] private versus default public like other social media platforms It was really optimized for new parents um and family and like close friends Um and we had seen uh so we were really focused on on creating a very curated and beautiful um sort of memory saving experience But one of the problems with building a default private social network is your viral factors low right Because literally people aren't gonna tell every even even if they love your product they're like great I told my family and my best friends about it and I'm done And you'll be like yeah can you tell other people that you really love us too And they're like but I am not gonna invite them to my group because my group is private not public So there was this cap on like we couldn't just rely on our customers to help us um grow Because honestly a lot of our customers were kind of default private people That's why they that's why they came to us is because they're not the kind of people that are like [00:21:00] blasting out on Twitter I fricking you know uh like everything detail every detail about their lives Um so we we uh that was why we started looking for other apps of growth And we noticed that there was the that um that was a time when Lenza Was going really viral Um so for people who don't know how many people remember Lenzo but or recall but so Lenzo was doing um generation of AI avatars for like um your your Twitter like profile picture or whatever Yeah

Kt: over Twitter Some people were putting him on LinkedIn

Amelia Lin: yeah exactly

Kt: it stood out so much Especially there

Amelia Lin: Yep Exactly exactly And then you were starting to see these other photo generation ops go viral There were ones for um self so selfies for sure So avatars selfies um celebrities as people were making uh images of the Pope right [00:22:00] Or like Tom Cruise or whatever Um will Smith Um and then people were also starting to do them for pets So there were pet por portrait generators Um yeah Yeah And I remember I

Kt: that moment I

Amelia Lin: And I remember thinking to myself we're starting to hit all the major categories of photography Like if you just think about photos in general what are the big big categories of photography There's stealth portraits selfies there's like public figures Like there's um there's pets and then like the really there's landscapes So we're like okay cool Someone else is gonna do landscapes or like nature whatever But like there's a really really big fricking obvious one that's missing which is like what about actually the people who you love Like if you open up any person's ran and especially any parent's phone and you click on the photos app [00:23:00] like what is 90 of what's in there You know So just like content we're like yeah And we're like if you just connect the dots like someone is going to also offer this for this category of photos No one has gotten to it yet No one has like either they haven't they might not be thinking about it or they don't wanna like touch it because you have to like think about all these safety guidelines and stuff Anything that has like photos of kids you wanna make sure it doesn't generate anything inappropriate And we're like we think we are one of the very first people to see that there's potential here that people are going to want this um that it can be really fun Uh we're like if and so we were coming up with all these crazy ideas of like um I think like there were like Star Wars There was some there was stuff around Star Wars going on at the time We were like create like a Star Wars themed like portrait of [00:24:00] your K where they've like got like a lights saber Yes

Kt: I remember

Amelia Lin: That that was very popular

Kt: little toddlers with the lightsabers

Amelia Lin: That was a very popular category Um our Star Wars portraits were very that was one of the most popular categories Um we also had uh anyway so yeah we created this mostly as a growth hack We thought that was what it was gonna be was like a viral growth hack Um and it it did but yeah we released the feature and then nothing happened for like a month and then it went viral Um so you know

Kt: I love that that framing of this sixth year overnight success not just because it's a useful like phrase it literally maps to the timeline of honeycomb for you

Amelia Lin: Yeah Yeah

Kt: And in the meantime while you're figuring all of this out right you're having these these growth hacks this [00:25:00] product success this stickiness that even as you talk about it what I hear is that you knew this customer base You knew that somebody was gonna launch this feature You

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: you knew who these people were why not you And while all of this is happening you are also starting a nonprofit at the same time back bombs kind of came up around this same time while you're

Amelia Lin: Now you're all these

Kt: interesting exciting founder

Amelia Lin: founder

Kt: Tell us

Amelia Lin: Tell us about that

Kt: the origin story I know starts

Amelia Lin: Start

Kt: your co-founder and and a need and a problem

Amelia Lin: a problem with

Kt: But I'd love to hear more about like how did you know it would be a yes

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: and not an either or do both

Amelia Lin: Um that's so interesting That's so interesting And like I mean I'm also genuinely rigorously curious about you know uh your version of this story too I know that's not what this is about but um [00:26:00] The Yes on felt so obvious to me Like I don't think there was ever a moment where we considered that it was a choice I don't I don't know how much of that was just I don't know how much of that is probably me basing myself on me Like I was like well I of course like I I'm not gonna make that choice I I wanted So I also like you know at the time at the time I was like well I want kids too Like obviously I'm not giving up like one of those dreams Yeah of course This is an and it's just about figuring out how to do it Um so I don't know how much of it was just based on that I do think there's also a little bit of salsa I I don't know I think the people who end up becoming founders for whatever reason I think we're kind of We're kind of Yes And people like I don't think we like having to settle We don't we don't like having to peg We're just like um we just want all of those things They're just gonna do [00:27:00] all of those things Yeah Um

Kt: it doesn't we'll just build it

Amelia Lin: yeah Exactly Yeah exactly I know That's so our personality And then um I think part of it at that time if I'm really honest I don't think we realized how unusual it was So some of it was a little bit of It's easier to break a glass ceiling that you don't know is there Right Um we really didn't realize that it was that unusual We didn't know until we started trying to find other women who had had kids while also running venture backed companies Um you know like I had spent at this point I mean I'm coming up on 15 years working in this startup tech ecosystem out here in the in Silicon Valley And like I've built a pretty good network over that time And um my co-founder had worked at Google and Meta and so she had the big tech network and I was like well obviously between our networks it's gonna be [00:28:00] trivial for us No problem

It was just very much honestly it was shock at how hard it was to one find these people So we were trying to write our own maternity leave policy and we're like oh let's go ask other people who've done this before Like you know how did they write their own own maternity leave policy What are like can they share drafts with us You know and like It is just so hard to find anybody We're asking like second third fourth degree like intro We're I mean we are scraping the ends of the earth to find these intros Um and I just remember thinking to myself what is gonna happen to all the other female founders who are in our shoes Because 86 of women in the United States become mothers So this is not some crazy uh niche thing In fact like I remember thinking I was like so like a bunch of female founders like like the majority of female founders [00:29:00] are going to walk the same path Like what are they all supposed to go through this crazy A journey that we've been going through this you know past month or two Um and I remember just searching like how for some community like VC-backed moms which I just thought had to be out there because I was like well the it we're in Silicon Valley a found a group for everything as a found group for everything You could have some super niche weird interest in some obscure watch brand and there'll be like a founder club for people who are into those watches Like and and on the flip side yeah And on the flip side you go on Facebook and there's 10 million mom groups There's a mom group for every every possible niche everything And so I was like how how has no one made the intersection of these two things Like that just really blew my mind I was like neither of these is radical Um like [00:30:00] concept So I think there was a part of me that really felt like This thing has to exist This is this is crazy Like how does this not already exist And also like dang it we need it I was like I we need this community Um cause neither of us had kids at the time and I was like well we're gonna be the blind leading blind so you know we really have to find these women

Kt: Let's at least find some people for us No and it's it's super interesting because to your point it seems like this kind of obvious Overlap right Of female founders moms all of that Like it seems like a no-brainer in this context but at the same time it just needed that like spark of a person to to go back to kind of like your motivation to

Amelia Lin: Yeah Yeah

Kt: this is a container for it and let's see let's test let's learn let's see what's needed and let it grow Uh and now it's at what like over 500

Amelia Lin: Yes

Kt: collectively

Amelia Lin: Over [00:31:00] $5 billion of venture funding raised an average of 10 million per member Yeah A hundred percent of our members have raised institutional capital Um it's just it's mind blowing And in our criteria um as Like remained basically identical since the founding of the company You know it's it's female founders and we at any stage of motherhood so we do that was something that we actually deliberately defined at the beginning Um you can have kids you could be pregnant you could be fertility planning You can also we have a category of like it's in the plan someday And I just wanna figure out how this works because my co-founder and I were also very infuriated when we were trying to join some of these mom groups for advice And they'd be like oh but have you had have you have your kids Do you have kids yet And she'd be like well no I'm expecting it They'd say okay no you can't join yet And she was like what what I can't like have questions until the human has emerged from me She's like I have [00:32:00] questions now I have questions now And I

Kt: you're in a panic mode Googling at 3:00 AM Then you can have information

Amelia Lin: Exactly Yeah

Kt: gonna allow

Amelia Lin: I was like oh let's put let's wait until you're in the most stressful most sleep deprived part and that's when like you can ask for help And so we found that very infuriating And so we specifically made the group like no you can join before um which yeah Is important

Kt: again saying like no like not just am I gonna make sure that there's space for for what I need for my plan for my building my own way but also saying and who else can I bring in How can I leave the door open for other folks who might need this or something like it

Amelia Lin: Yeah

I would say no That being said the vast majority of our members have kids so I would say like 90 plus of our members have kids But it is like very very important to me um that we have defined the criteria in that way And we do have members who are like and I I also think like any parent knows like the [00:33:00] journey is complicated or it can be really it can be really complicated right And like people can have really really complicated paths on their journey to becoming a a parent or a mother And so yeah we have people there who are in all stages of planning and just like figuring things out and just having other people with that with you on that journey is invaluable

Kt: And simultaneously also on various stages and very different founder journeys right So there's this this combination of variants in there that that creates a wealth of different data points different solutions different ideas It's it's really cool to see and to be a part of So Honeycomb is growing too right You've got VC Backed Moms running We've got this project turned full blown nonprofit

Kt: Your startup is doing well you've raised millions at this point in time You've got investors [00:34:00] from Bling capital Charles from precursor is being featured in like New York Times little publications like Tech Crunch um things

Amelia Lin: things like that also.com

Kt: How did you know like really know in your soul not just like optimism

Amelia Lin: and

Kt: um confidence and faith but how did you know that you are on the path to an exit soon

Amelia Lin: Um I don't think we did honestly I the honest answer it was it was not something that was written in our plans Um and actually I would say that's probably a piece of advice that I wish I had been given earlier was um I think I actually think that like every founder CEO should I feel like there should be a there should be coursework somewhere like training on [00:35:00] thinking about like exit paths Um it's just not you're so consumed especially at the beginning on just getting things up and running then you're just focused on running the thing And I kind of found that for me um when we were in really the thick of navigating uh m and a You know I was like wow I really wish that I had like learned more of this stuff earlier when I wasn't in a super intense time pressure environment where I'm you know I'm being asked to make a decision within 48 hours

Kt: Like like thinking about that Let's let's dig into that because you knew about m and a you

Amelia Lin: yeah

Kt: exits how it sounds like you didn't feel as prepared as you wished

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: have been in

Amelia Lin: Exactly

Kt: Right Obviously at this point you've done it so you know more

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: you having gone through an [00:36:00] acquisition If you built another startup again in the future what's something you would've done differently to prepare for it

Amelia Lin: Okay Um I during this process I actually spoke to a founder friend who had also gone through an exit And as I was asking her about her m and a process and I said how long had you been thinking about um Who would be you know uh potential acquirers And she said oh from day one I was like what And it turned out that in her prior life she had worked in BD in partnerships And so she was like I'm actually she's like yeah I've been on the other side Like I actually really knew about this world And so when I started the company I already knew at the very beginning that it would be smart to strategically think about like who would [00:37:00] be people who maybe at the beginning they start out as enterprise customers for us But eventually that relationship becomes the potential acquirer And I was like wow Like I was so shy I thought she was gonna say like six months or something you know Um but like yeah she's like no no no I've been thinking about this since the beginning I was like oh my gosh You know And um and there's some truth to that because um so you know what ended up happening was um like our our technology so our team Acquired by Ello our technology was acquired by another company and that other company was a company that we had actually been working with on a business deal Um so they were like again a potential enterprise client and they were very interested in licensing our technology at the time Uh [00:38:00] we were at the time the best in the market at doing any kind of image generation that had to do with kits Um so we had talked to a lot of brand names that um I think probably uh your listeners would recognize Um it might be where you order your holiday cards from Um you know that kind of those kinds of places And they had said to us that we'd come in we'd shown our technology and demoed and we had gotten a lot of feedback that we've looked at a lot of companies cause we're very interested in AI and you guys are the best So we'd heard it enough times to believe that it was true Um And yeah like that ended up turning into a technology acquisition And so you know I was like wow I could have been really like smart and actually uh mapped that out like uh like my friend um I could have predicted that like these things don't have to be as [00:39:00] um just spontaneous as it might as it might as you know as it as as it felt Um so that is definitely something that I recommend to every founder I almost think of it as being like in high school and you know I it's like I wish that they had taught us personal finances in school I'm like man there's so many like life skills They're like yeah you should really just that that should just really be like a class in school Um And I think this is one And then because it's not gonna be something that is like recommended to you I think you kind of have to do it on your own is way before you think you're ever gonna end up in those conversations Just go like educate yourself on what m and a paths exist Talk to founders who've gone through it Ask them what their experience is like Um you'll start to get a sense of [00:40:00] like these are the possible paths these are the possible kind of these are some of the patterns Um these are some of the questions to think about really early on So that if and when you have to pull out that playbook you at least freaking have your playbook in your notes And you're not starting from scratch You're like okay cool I researched this beforehand Um yeah

Kt: and and you know I think we don't

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: about the details of split acquisitions or things like that and so I'm curious the technologies acquired yay Happy

Amelia Lin: Thank you Yeah

Kt: for the team Right As you think

Amelia Lin: Oh yeah

Kt: Ello that's a different set of considerations I would imagine Then just purely the tech and not the people So

Amelia Lin: Yes

Kt: important questions that you asked when thinking about you and your team becoming a part of another company

Amelia Lin: There was a lot I think about um Ello that felt like such a great fit Um [00:41:00] a lot of what I have seen a lot of what I'd seen go wrong in um Acquisitions from my previous life working in startups So I'd seen um my partner had also gone through an acquisition so the startup that he was at was acquired by a larger company so I'd gotten to see what his experience was like I'd also worked at companies like Udacity um that acquired companies And so I also got to see okay what is that like Um and I'd also just heard enough stories that I I think the like the the merging of two cultures um is such a big factor in how that's gonna go And I really wanted to feel very confident that not only was it gonna be a good deal overall just to do it um I really wanted it to feel like this is gonna be a great culture fit Um both in terms of I think that is [00:42:00] how the out I don't think either either the acquirer or the acquired company is excited about a future where there's like a you know uh what is it It's like when you have a like a limb and then like your body's like rejecting the you know the limb or whatever you know Um I was like I don't think anybody wants that outcome But also just really I just wanted I wanted uh I wanted us to enjoy our job every day I was like I I want us to be excited about going to work And um so that was a really big part of it Um I we knew the team at lo Um so again I think this is this goes back to the same like advice that I you know would give other give other founders So much is actually gonna depend on the really your like the relationship that you have with the other site Um and it's not your chances are so much lower if it's like the first time that you're meeting if if you're going into [00:43:00] m and a and it's like hey this is the first time that we're having conversations Um it's just so much It's like the difference between having hiring somebody that comes referred from someone within your team versus somebody that's like a cult application Like when when someone on your team is like I already know them and I try and this person is great There is so much like default trust that comes with that That makes it so much easier to make that hiring decision It's kind of the same thing with um With any kind of business deal or acquisition in general And so that was a huge part of it was that I had a lot of trust in that Um I knew the I knew the all team was gonna be a great group of humans I knew it was gonna be a great culture I knew that was gonna be a really good culture fit with our team It didn't hurt for sure that like there were also a lot of larger um mission alignment pieces There were very few companies [00:44:00] at the time There's more now but there were very few companies at the time that were really focused on working at the intersection of really like generative AI and families and kids That was like not a common thing at time Like tons of B2B s company

Kt: scary for a lot of people

Amelia Lin: Yeah And consumer too So it's like consumer like families and kids generative ai There are very very few companies working in that space and And and deeply interested in the technology side of it So like and and our our team frankly And and I like you know just frankly selfishly personally I was like that's what's really interesting I'm not really interested in kind of compromising there There's a ton of really big family brands very focused on families and kids that are are maybe sort of interested in ai but that's not like a core piece of what they're doing They're maybe just thinking of it as like you know how do we like adapt AI into our product How do we like move with this [00:45:00] giant technological shift But it's not the absolute beating heart of what they're trying to build Um And that mattered to me I was like I'm I'm I'm fundamentally kind of a tech nerd And so I was like I wanna be working on like the techno like I want to be working at a company where that is core to the company and and the product because um yeah So so there were a lot of pieces It was like yes all all the mission fit parts were there Um but then the culture fit piece and the trust with the team was the the trust with the leadership team and the founders um was absolutely crucial

Kt: Okay so it's November 20 24 Right And the the acquisition has gone through the world knows it's no longer a thing You're only talking about in the need to know circles and and all of that What changed either in like your calendar or your energy even your identity [00:46:00] in that like week after all of a sudden everyone knows that you're an exited CEO

Amelia Lin: Um uh we actually didn't announce it until I think December Um so the deal was done in November but we um like kind of worked out and time and we were like all right let's like be on the same page about when we're sharing this with cause the LO team was also going to announce it from their end too And so so we didn't announce until December Um honestly I don't think that in the immediate aftermath there was a whole bunch of time to process Um it was it was pretty it was pretty in intense Um and there was a lot of work that had to get done Uh so if I'm really honest I it was I think Uh yeah my co-founder was like how do you feel And I was like I don't have time to have feelings right now I was like I'll have my [00:47:00] feelings later I'll like ask me a couple months I'll we have time to have feeling I like I don't have time to have feelings right now No seriously So um so I don't think a ton changed for me in the immediate moment because it was just like there's just a lot to get done The closest that I can compare it to is like a um a really really uh like fast moving um fundraise process if any if a founder has been through that where if it's like if you're really kind of in that moment where it's like you are on the you are on either on a phone or email Like essentially 24 7 Um and it's that's that's all you're doing is there's a ton of communication a ton of stuff to take care of and a ton of stuff is very like time sensitive Um yeah that was yeah So I would say that the busiest few times the entire like the the the company journey where like right at the beginning and right at the [00:48:00] right at the end like we're sort of similar in intensity in that way Um and then I don't think it was until like probably like two or three months I would say into like being a full-time employee at LO that you that I felt like I had space to even be like oh yeah So it's different about life now Um I think the biggest things are um You take you you you appreciate so much more like a hundred times more All these things that were true when you when I was like an employee before but you kind of take it for granted when you're when you when you're an employee and then uh and then you get used to being a founder and you like forget it was like to be an employee and then you're an employee again

Kt: be [00:49:00] responsible for everything

Amelia Lin: Yeah Yeah I was like wow actually this is really cool That um like someone else is is some it's someone else's job to worry about like where all our paychecks come from Like that's wow I mean you just take it for granted when you don't

Kt: Negotiating insurance

Amelia Lin: Yeah I was like oh I can just be the person that chooses which insurance plan to sign up for instead of having to choose which insurance plans we offer and make sure that they're good and hope that they're not totally shitty And um yeah Um there just the amount of extra brain space that I have on weekends um when you're running your company full time When I at least for me [00:50:00] it was like it was amazing to me like um It was like it was it was practically the first thing I thought of when I woke up and it would be like the last thing I thought of at night before I went to bed And it was it was so um and it wa that was just involuntary you know It was just involuntary You're just thinking about it all the time and it's not always really bad And sometimes sounds like I'm really excited I was really excited you know to be thinking about all the time And I don't necessarily say it as a complaint it's just it's just a truth you know And so that's different Yeah

Kt: a part of you I mean I I remember for me I didn't realize that I had this muscle memory on my phone to just like In like liminal spaces Like if I'm waiting for I don't know uh waiting to order at a restaurant or uh

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: my partner to come sit down for dinner I would pick up my phone and just go to the admin dashboard and check our stats It

Amelia Lin: Oh gosh

Kt: had to break that habit because it

Amelia Lin: Oh gosh

Kt: I didn't

Amelia Lin: I

Kt: about it It [00:51:00] was just like a thing I did and I realized that there were a lot of those things that to your point I was always thinking about it and most of the time it was great It's cause I loved it and I wanted to

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: it

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: after that fact I was like oh wait to your point that more open brain space

Amelia Lin: yeah yeah yeah And then um I think just knowing that like honestly I think it was VC backed moms was it it started out as this like slack group you know that had like less than a dozen people in it uh when we started in 2021 And it had really grown over time Um at the time that we uh were selling the company we had um it wasn't yet the case that I think we had like fully become like a we hadn't yet become like a full blown nonprofit That actually didn't happen during like the lifetime of the company Um it was starting to [00:52:00] happen right around the time Um that the seal was happening So we had been looking for a pro bono council for quite some time to see if anybody would help us incorporate um because we had gotten to the point where like I I just knew that I didn't want this to just be a Slack group I wanted it to be like an institution that was around for generations and that required that that required a whole bunch of things Um it required the ability for us to like accrue uh like to to step up our sponsorships and build the kind of financial um resources and model that were gonna let us um be sustained over time and um and and sort of achieve some of these logical goals that we had in mind for the organization So And then just kind of by coincidental timing uh it took months you know to do go through the incorporation to become a nonprofit to get 5 0 1 C3 status Uh and that all started happening like right around the time that um the sale was happening So [00:53:00] so yeah Uh so it's actually a relatively new thing that we are like a full blown nonprofit Um I'm so proud to be able to say that I just love that I love how far the group has come Um so that was also really cool to me was uh like frankly um there's well I don't need to tell you this there's just a lot less free time you know when you're like running a full time venture backed company There's a lot of like hobbies that I had that fell by the wayside and went on pause and things like that And I was like really excited to um I was like oh I have time to have a hobby again and I can choose if I want for my hobby to be this group to be this community to be this thing You know other people cook other people play a sport whatever you know like this is what I wanna do So that was cool

Kt: Love that As we get close to the end What's a [00:54:00] myth about exits that you'd like to see retired

Amelia Lin: Oh that's a good one Hmm

I think the really big one is that like they happen spontaneously Like that was such a wake up moment for me talking to my friend who was like oh I've been planning this out for years I was like God I wish I'd thought of that Like um not that And and I think that I think there's this feeling that somehow as a venture back founder you're like I mean you're always shooting for the moon so you are almost like Ugh I'm not I'm not want I don't wanna like jinx myself by thinking about an exit So I do think there is a little bit of that feeling and that attitude but I would really encourage people to think of it as just like As just like an education that you wanna [00:55:00] have You don't necessarily have to use it And you can choose like when you decide if and when you ever decide you know to use that knowledge But you probably do wanna feel like if you are in a situation where you decide that you wanna move forward um that you're not just educating yourself about it on the spot you know Um like we don't do that with fundraising I think people try I think people wouldn't feel weird at all about going out and like trying to educate themselves on the fundraising process and how that works so that you can make sure that you have a good fundraising process And um I don't know So um I yeah I think of it as I wanna I I guess I think of it as like it should be like a hygiene area of knowledge That like any first time founder CEO feels like they're allowed to educate someone along

Kt: to grow something to an exit I mean that's

Amelia Lin: Yeah that's right [00:56:00] And there's more than one way to exit

Kt: it's really interesting that you point that out I mean how many I bet we could look right now and see how many programs are fundraising strategy and mechanics and things like that but for some reason We assume there's that Founders will just know this magical moment at

Amelia Lin: I

Kt: they should get very deeply versed in the M&A uh process in details

Amelia Lin: yeah

Kt: just like that six year overnight success you won't realize you're there until you're there probably And there'll be lots of smaller moments that lead up to that where you could be building that acumen and building out your

Amelia Lin: absolutely

Kt: That's a huge takeaway

Amelia Lin: Yeah

Kt: Thank you so much for being here This was such a treat Where can people find you on the internet Stay connect with you Stay in touch with your in your journey Get in touch with VC backed moms Let us know

Amelia Lin: Um so definitely like I mean you can you can definitely [00:57:00] find out whatever I'm working on um on on LinkedIn either related to LO or to um or to VC batched moms Um let's see Uh yeah um we're I'm hiring I'm we're we're hiring right now at lo so uh you know if if working in the co in the intersection of of EdTech and and cutting edge AI as appealing um check check check check out Go go follow me cause I'll be posting um if there are positions that are open Um and then for for VC backed moms it's um You know or it find us@vcbackmoms.com It share it I think that's a big one for me Just let people know that it exists and that's my number one ask for people Um there are so I the thing I always my worst nightmare is somebody being out there who was in the shoes that we were in just not even knowing that this community exists cause I would've died to like you know have this [00:58:00] community and join it Um so we just want people to know that it does exist um and that they can join and that it's free and it's just a really wonderful group of humans Um including including including yourself so you know um

Kt: Well

Amelia Lin: yeah

Kt: and we'll have all of those links um linked easily in in the show notes so people don't even have to think to type They can just click away And again thank you so much I know that talking about exits is something that is also a bit uh mythologized So thanks for breaking it down and being human and being real and being practical about it And I love seeing how your your purpose and your your motivations have taken you so far And I know it's only gonna go someplace cool from here

Amelia Lin: Thank you so much for having me This was really fun I've been looking forward toit.

Thanks for tuning in to Founded On Purpose a Renew Venture Capital podcast. Founded on Purpose is produced and hosted by me, Kt mc Bratney. For more conversations like this one, you can find all [00:59:00] our episodes on Spotify, apple Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like this episode, give us a five star rating.

Each one helps us reach more people who believe in changing the world through purposeful, profitable business. Until next time, be well.