Founded On Purpose

Kt McBratney: [00:00:00] Welcome to Founded on Purpose, the show where we get to know the people working to align business and impact, profit and purpose. I'm your host, Kt McBratney. Each episode, we welcome a founder, investor, or ecosystem builder to answer the same set of questions and unlock brilliantly authentic conversation about their expertise and experience.

And today's guest is bringing so much of both to the table. Laurie Lane Zucker is the founder and CEO of Impact Entrepreneur. A company dedicated to fostering the impact economy. You probably already know Impact Entrepreneur from their large global community of system minded entrepreneurs, investors, and scholars that are focused on social and environmental innovation.

Or their digital magazine dedicated to the emerging impact economy, where Laurie serves as editor and publisher. He's also edited, contributed, and authored numerous books and magazines on sustainability and social impact, including 2023 textbook, sustainability, business and [00:01:00] investment implications. So you could say he knows more than a thing or two about working for profit and for purpose.

Laurie, welcome to the show.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Kt is great to be here. And thank you. We're going to hire you as our marketing person. That was a great intro.

Kt McBratney: You know, that copywriting background. Many, many moons ago does come in handy sometimes. AI, AI can't take that away from me just yet.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Just give it time though, right? I know.

Kt McBratney: It's coming. It's coming.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Coming fast.

Kt McBratney: Yeah. Well, we start with the same question for everyone. And quite frankly, this is the one that I cannot imagine starting with you anywhere else. In one word, what is your purpose?

Laurie Lane Zucker: My purpose, broadly speaking, is to do good in the world, to contribute tangibly to environmental and social health and healing.

Kt McBratney: [00:02:00] Healing is such a powerful word. I think we think about success and it's always growth, or better, or progress. Healing is a word that doesn't come up as much. Or are you, do you find that because of what you do and in your circle, it's more common to have that as part of the discussion?

Laurie Lane Zucker: Well, you know, I, I, uh, first half of my career was spent leading an international NGO, uh, sustainability oriented and environmental. Uh, organization and, uh, I've lost half of my career. It's been very much focused on business finance and entrepreneurship side of, of these things, but kind of coming from that background, um, of, of working in the nonprofit sphere.

I mean, I think that definitely has, uh, impacted my. Um, yeah, my orientation, uh, and an approach to impact business and [00:03:00] finance. Um, yeah, so, and, and also there was a time when I also led a, uh, for a short period of a few years, a, uh, wisdom. Organization that, uh, whose mission, it grew out of the Sufi tradition and its goal was to, uh, seek out, um, seek, seek out, uh, wisdom that existed in historical as well as contemporary wisdom traditions, whether they be organized religion or more esoteric forms of, of wisdom and, uh, that, that could be.

Contribute to deepening humanity's understanding of our place in the world and, um, practically addressing the very serious, one could say, epochal challenges that we face, whether it be climate [00:04:00] change or, you know, vast and increasing, uh, inequities, social inequities, et cetera. So, um, because I'm, have spent.

My whole career working with top policy people and scientists and, uh, and others who are really deep into environmental and social justice issues, healing is part and parcel to, to everything. Yeah, that's, that's why I have characterized my mission in that way.

Kt McBratney: What a journey. And I'm. Fighting my own temptation to go down about seven rabbit holes based on what you just said, but coming back to your, to your purpose overall, when did you first know that that was going to be your purpose, your mission, and such a driving force [00:05:00] in your career?

Laurie Lane Zucker: I think part of that was my upbringing, the family I was born into, uh, that had a very strong. Social environmental consciousness to it. Um, I, out of college, my undergraduate school, I, my first job, which came to me quite serendipitously was in the film industry, uh, working for a foreign art of a division, art film division of a major motion picture company in New York city.

And, uh, it was really interesting work, but along the way, I, uh, after a couple of years of doing that. There was a hole in my identity, uh, or just a hole in my existence. And I, it wasn't until I came across a kind of niche niche market, environmental magazine produced by a small nonprofit organization, uh, that was focused on the relationship between people and nature, [00:06:00] uh, Orion magazine.

It's called still exists. And, uh, I just felt that that hole that existed in me was filled. I offered my time with the magazine and ended up being their first executive director and started, uh, the organization that that magazine then became Uh, kind of a voice piece of, so, um, yeah, that, that, uh, that moment where I was able to take, uh, that kind of almost from birth sensibility that, uh, was just inherent in my, in my family, in my genetics, uh, and to kind of find it.

Such close alignment with work I could do in the world. Um, that, that was an important moment for me. And then of course I went and one can always point to mentors. I long I had along the way, whether it be in [00:07:00] school or in my early professional career that also had influenced, you know, I years ago. When we were at Orion, we gave an annual award, and one year, we gave a lifetime achievement award to the writer, poet, essayist, uh, environmental guru, Wendell Berry.

And, uh, the way we would celebrate the, these people who received this award was to go to their home place and bring a whole group of, kind of, People who are also in the space leaders in the space to celebrate them and I remember when we gave him the award Wendell Had a few words to say we asked him to say a few words and he started out by saying, you know If I were to start subtracting from me the influence of each person in this room I would quickly disappear altogether.

So, you know, I, I really feel like that too. I am an accumulation of wisdom of knowledge that [00:08:00] has been, uh, shared with me by, uh, some many deeply wise people, very mission centric or centric people over the years. And I'm, I, a part of me just believes that I'm just carrying on that, that tradition.

Kt McBratney: Those words.

Those words, I'm like that is that is beautiful And I think something that resonates with me and that is this idea that this work is a choice and a calling There's a good degree of self awareness but also Pushing back on some of the challenges that individualism puts upon us not just professionally but when we do think about our role in some of these extremely serious challenges that we are facing Across the globe, right?

It is not one person, one region, one anything. It [00:09:00] is one world that is facing these. And at the same time, it can be deeply personal and very communal. And community has been part of your work, too. I mean, not just the official formal community that can be found at Impact Entrepreneur, but it's And the conferences that you've organized and led, the speaking, the writing that you've done, and also really just how you show up as a leader.

I'm curious, as we think about some of those really big challenges, you're clearly someone with a lot of accolades and accomplishments under your belt. What has been a recent win of yours?

Laurie Lane Zucker: Oh, that's funny. I kind of focus more on the losses, you know, uh, and, and what we could have done better, what I could have done better.

Um, you know, especially at the present time, having lived through so much, uh, so many stressful things in the world stage and on the U S stage in [00:10:00] recent months, and, uh, it's, um, it, it, it's very easy. To think about the things, the losses, uh, however, I'm glad you asked the question, you know, what, what are the successes, uh, what's a more recent success.

Um, when I started impact entrepreneur back in 2011, 14 years now, um, you know, I established the term impact entrepreneur, uh, to impart to. Kind of try to establish a new archetype of professional. Um, somebody who, as I've said from the very beginning, brings a systems lens to using business and finance to make change in the world.

Uh, measurable change in the world. Um, what was in my mind [00:11:00] back then was a question of, you know, you know, in starting a business, in starting a company, in starting a brand that's serving the space authentically and at the depth and the level that I felt it needed, uh, the space needed and that my company needed.

The question that I was grappling with was what is a successful brand? In this space, what is a successful company brand, you know, in general, you know, different people will have different answers to that question, or, you know, it could be ubiquity could be that makes a lot of money, you know, that it's global, you know, and there are arguments that can be made to all this.

Well, I was approaching this question from a slight, somewhat different approach. I felt like within the context of sustainability. And the need for not simply building businesses that do good in [00:12:00] the world, but actually transforming the entire economic paradigm and transforming the entire economic ecosystem from a single bottom line to a triple bottom line operating principle.

To me, that is the real goal here. That is, to me, the most significant transformation of economics in 250 years since Adam Smith published the Wealth of Nations. This movement from a single bottom line to a triple bottom line brain chemistry. This, what is a successful brand given that context? And what I arrived at was a belief that a truly transformative brand.

It was more than those other qualities that I mentioned earlier. It was a brand that successfully connected the human consciousness with [00:13:00] the subconscious with the collective unconscious. All three of these together. And I wanted to create that brand. I wanted to create a brand that was anchored to some You know, really authentic, meaningful and transformative values that when someone thought about that name of the brand,

they thought about systems change, they thought about building businesses that are doing measurable good in the world, they thought about investing in those businesses or funding them in different ways and thought about that we were Working with a global community of colleagues who were collectively making this biggest transformation, 250 years happen and so impact entrepreneur has that [00:14:00] brand.

Kind of that's, that's an important, uh, core goal for what we've done. Now, what does that mean as you become, as that brand becomes successful at meeting those goals? Well, what it means is, and this was certainly my hope at the beginning was that people would use the name of our brand, not simply to describe something they use or they did, or they visited on our website, but their very identity.

They would use it to describe who they are in the world. And you ask me, what is a more recent success, if you go on to Google, if you go on to LinkedIn and you put impact entrepreneur there, you find now untold numbers, tens of thousands of people all over the world who use that name to describe who they are, their identity.

[00:15:00] And that I don't know of another business that's ever done that before. And I think that's an incredibly powerful thing.

Kt McBratney: It gives people not just a self descriptor but a community that they can be a part of a movement that they feel like they have been a part of It gives them a sense of belonging and and myself included It's a phrase that that i've used to describe myself that i've heard Countless times and even before my work at renew venture capital like it's it's claim.

It almost feels like Validation and and staking a claim at the same time Right? Saying, I'm choosing this, and this is something in two simple, powerful words can tell you a lot about who I am, what I do, and how I show up in the world. And that's, I come from a brand background myself, and like, if that isn't the kind of epitome [00:16:00] of a brand hitting its maximum power.

And value truly, because brand is what people say or feel about your company, your product or service.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Yeah.

Kt McBratney: You've given them a term that also is a mirror for them.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've thought of it in lots of different ways, but, uh, there's a totemic quality. To it, there's a, there's a, uh, in, in, in our, our visual branding that we did with it, which is a frog, the frog, I love that is kind of has a, has a kind of fiery element to the design, but it's also, uh, reaching.

It's, it's reaching out, it's aspirational, it's, it's reaching for the green, you know, it does in part pick up on the boiling frog story that's been around since the 1880s, 1890s, that Al Gore made, [00:17:00] uh, brought back to life or in this, uh, one of his films on climate change, uh, you know, that story of the frog that's in, uh, boiling water, uh, 1890s.

You know, jumps out is put in boiling water, jumps out from the shock of the heat, whereas in slowly, uh, heating water that stays there until it croaks, you could say, um, of course, but, but the frog has so many more, even more, uh, deep meanings. To it. I mean, frogs are indicator species in an ecological sense.

They are incredibly sensitive. They're they, they, they take in their environment and reveal the health of that environment or the ill health of the environment frogs also have been existing in, um, in, in traditions. In this mythological traditions all over the world, uh, in, in often, not always, but it's often, uh, like in the, in the person [00:18:00] of, uh, the goddess of Hecate, uh, a, a, a symbol of the divine feminine of regeneration of, uh, of, of, of creativity.

And, and innovation, so, uh, so that that is, you know, I, I'm, I'm revealing kind of my, my background and my interest in, in both wisdom traditions, as well as in, uh, just, uh, archetypal philosophy, whether it be younger or others here, and that it has certainly informed the work that we've done in building our company.

I don't know if you have a lot of people, entrepreneurs coming on talking about the company this way, but,

Kt McBratney: uh, Yes. And I love it. I'm like, you had me an indicator species and philosophy. Um, random fact about me is my first post college job was at a top zoo. That is, that is, uh, really. Really a leader in conservation and that's where I learned so much about [00:19:00] frogs specifically and amphibians as indicator species as um as really not the canary in the coal mine, but the The croaks to to let us know right where we need to to do some healing so no you are talk philosophy talk wisdom talk all of it to us with the business because That's really part of the purpose of of this show, right?

We can talk about You know, business models and margins and growth philosophies, right? Like the tactics of business, but at the end of the day, it's my fundamental belief that business exists to serve people and we're solving real problems for people meeting needs, responding to opportunities that ultimately.

Or people. Now, if it's something from, you know, inventing a better pen so that people can be more efficient, that's still a human problem. Um, so, you are on the right show to get into all of these. And the [00:20:00] brand nerd in me was like, each little nugget you were revealing, I, I felt like I was, um, You know those those holiday like the surprise balls and they're wrapped in the crepe paper and every layer you get another treat I feel like you just did that via that story.

Oh,

Laurie Lane Zucker: thanks

Kt McBratney: Now we're gonna diverge a little bit from the typical structure of the show because I could honestly spend The entire time talking to you about just one of these. So we might not get to all eight questions. And that's the beauty of it being my show is I can say we're going to, we're going to follow where the conversation takes us.

And that's, that's, I think the beauty of it. I want to go back to what you said about being systems minded because as, as someone who's at a firm where Changing systems as part of, I mean, it's literally one of the two things we do. There is a variance in how people talk about systems change systems, thinking systems designed and it being [00:21:00] kind of a buzzy word, but also very specific in different contexts.

So for our audience and to root us in what. Systems minded is as a whole. I would love for you to unpack kind of your take on that, how you define what it means to be system minded and then how that might play out for your team with some examples for your community.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Well, yeah, you, you mentioned that, uh, there might be, um, uh, kind of a sense of, of systems minded or system change being a bit of a buzzword these days.

15 years ago, 14 years ago, when I started impact entrepreneur, I wasn't a buzzword. That was part of the problem and the hole in the story. Now, I believe that I am a social entrepreneur, uh, as well as an impact entrepreneur. Uh, however, having kind of started in an earlier life, a, uh, one of the first B corporations, a [00:22:00] founding B corporation back in 2007, 2008, kind of a precursor.

Uh, company to, to impact entrepreneur, uh, and walking the path of the social entrepreneur. I felt, uh, that one of the takeaways for me was that, um, there was a hole in the story. The, and the hole in the story was a lack of systems mightiness. The focus was always on that individual business. And whether you're a founding founder, starting a business or investor funding of an individual business, what was not part of the story as I was experiencing it was the fact that those entrepreneurs, that kind of mission driven entrepreneur was having to build their business within a dominant business paradigm that was largely antithetical to what they were trying to accomplish.

That's the gulf between a single bottom line and triple bottom line operating principle. And, uh, [00:23:00] um, and that was really problematic to me. I mean, I, I spent back in the early nineties. I was, uh, with Bill McKibben, one of the, you know, people who driving consciousness around climate change, uh, from. From early on, you know, going around the country, uh, talking about, uh, systemic environmental challenges.

And so it is always, I brought to this, this world of business finance and entrepreneurship, a really deep seated consciousness of, uh, that, that all these problems are deeply systemic.

Kt McBratney: It's a lot to, it's a lot to, I mean, it's not a. It's a complex and juicy area to talk about system mindedness.

Laurie Lane Zucker: So bringing the systems minded, uh, sort of understanding of, uh, systems and how they can either contribute to environmental and social decay and [00:24:00] problems or contribute to solutions.

Uh, that was very much behind the launch of Impact Entrepreneur, um, to bring that added layer to the story of social entrepreneurship and to bring it into the conversation. So, I think while we're not certainly the only business, the only, um, impact advocacy organization that has been talking about systems change.

Uh, over the years, we certainly have contributed in, uh, important and in our own way, again, getting back to the term impact entrepreneur and what it would mean from the moment we launched. And we would, I was in a position in a webinar or in, in, in something where I was describing what impact entrepreneur was as a business and what, who impact entrepreneurs were as individuals.[00:25:00]

I would always, still to this day, talk about. It being, uh, about systems minded innovation using through business and finance. Just saying it over and over and over and over and over again, so that our increasingly large audience of people would, um, to the extent they weren't already, and some of them were already on this wavelength, certainly.

But those who are, who are just coming to it would really, you know, Digest it and, uh, become a central part of the conversation, which it is. It is becoming for sure.

Kt McBratney: And it, and it's more, it's bigger. It's always been bigger than buzzwords, trend cycles and headlines come and go. You, you know that very well, but when it comes to changing systems and using systems for solutions, you have to systemically change the narrative, which it sounds like.

You [00:26:00] have been doing the whole time by reiterating that message using specific phrasing as almost an invitation for people to either further that work, right, or planting seeds for them to think about how not, not if, but how they're connected to the systems, because as I was telling a friend of mine the other day, we were talking about, we're like, systems are people.

People have built the systems. We are the ones that change them. So it's not if. We participate in a system or interact with one like it's how

Laurie Lane Zucker: yes. Yeah, you know, um, I think one of the thing. I mean, I've been in this work for long enough to, to kind of see the political cycles change, you know, several times.

And of course, we in the United States have been through a pretty massive one, uh, since I've The, the, [00:27:00] the recent election, and we are seeing very tangibly, almost by the hour, it seems a, uh, a pushback, uh, at a, at a, um, on the emerging systems, uh, of impact, uh, whether it be the impact spaces. You know, serious concerns about, uh, equity and diversity, the integration of environmental, social, and governments, uh, lenses into investments, into business operations, business, business management, um, the pushback on all things, green energy, renewable energy, um, you know, in, in, on, on the positive side, it's a sign that we're winning.[00:28:00]

I believe, and I've always believed, that this is inevitable. If humanity is going to survive this century, it's inevitable. We have to go in this direction. Now, we've seen over and over in these cycles, politically, over the last few decades, that there is You know, put going to be pushed back by powerful interests.

Um, and we're certainly living in that right now, but I do see this as an inevitable process. It's just really a question of whether we can, um, work through this process of this transformative process quickly enough.

Kt McBratney: And I love, I love how you said transformative process. Um, and I'm with you. I think that the, if there's a hard pushback, it means that it requires something powerful.

You don't push back over something that, that, uh, is too small to even catch your attention, [00:29:00] right? Let alone change the world. As we're talking about this, and this might be a, this might be a beautiful can of worms we're about to open and it might not, it might be very straightforward, so we'll see where we go with it.

But as you think about impact entrepreneurship as a whole, right? Just as a field, let's just define that as. One, even though it's not, it is so multivariate. It's so, uh, complex and, and, uh, contextual and beautifully intertangled with lots of different verticals and industries and all of that, but thinking from the perspective of an impact entrepreneur, what would you say that biggest missed opportunity is

Laurie Lane Zucker: there are missed opportunities every day.

Um, and you usually only see those in retrospect.[00:30:00]

So lingering too long on missed opportunities, rather than seeing something you might have done better, or you could have grasped onto earlier, or done a bit differently, uh, is less important than the learning you got from that moment, or instance, or, uh, or that missed opportunity. Um, So, it really, to me, is a question of, uh, we're missing opportunities all the time.

But do we see them? And what do we do with that knowledge moving forward? And are we going to miss fewer opportunities because of that wisdom that we're bringing to the next moment [00:31:00] in our lives?

Kt McBratney: There's only so much progress you can make or forward motion you can make if you're spending your whole time looking backwards.

Yeah. It's beautiful. And on that positive note, as, as you know, the team at Renew, we are very serious. We work hard. We have a high bar of excellence. And also we know that there is power and necessity in human creativity and innovation and play. And so I'm curious if you could share with, with our audience how you give yourself, what does play like, what does play look like for you, knowing that you're operating at the intersection of a lot of really serious, How do you keep it?

How do you keep the doom and gloom away? How do you keep the creativity, the optimism and the innovation going personally or professionally [00:32:00] so that. You can stay in the work and stay in, dare I say, the fight.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, and there's a few different answers to that, I guess. There's, um, you know, back in the 90s and the early 2000s, I mentioned that I was involved in the climate movement from pretty early on.

Um, And, uh, we had this one program that we were doing at, uh, Orion, this, this nonprofit I was leading, where we would take environmental thinkers and writers barnstorming around the country, uh, into communities, this is in the night, early nineties, mid nineties, uh, to raise consciousness about things like climate change.

And we would meet with, uh, usually a small group, small community groups. Classrooms at universities, you know, we talked to anybody who could, who, who want to meet with us. [00:33:00] No one knew what climate change was. No one knew the seriousness of this. Um, and, and, and, and we would be talking to 10, 15, 20 people at a time.

It was a really lonely. Time, because when you bring awareness of just how huge this and challenging this issue was, is and was, and it's even more so now, uh, because of our relative inaction, um, it, it, it's things like that, and there are many, many instances of it that do bring a palpable darkness to one's days and, and it's.

One thing that has given me hope over the years is the, is just the, the growing [00:34:00] consciousness that people have around these issues and the sense of community that you therefore then have, that you're not the only one burying this, or you're not one of a small group of people, that you are now in 2015 or 2016 At the time of the largest, uh, you know, protests in human history around climate that happened all over the world, you're now part of a, a, a huge and growing community of people.

So that fact is very, uh, uh, reinforcing and, and, and hopeful. Um, in a very personal way, being in nature is crucial for me. I lived in New York City for eight, nine years, and I love New York City. I love quite a few cities. Um, but [00:35:00] I didn't have enough nature, and uh, I, as I and the organization I was leading at the time escaped to where I am now, which is in the Berkshires of western Massachusetts.

My home is, uh, borders on a state forest, one of the largest state forests in New England. Um, the school next to me has a mountain club that takes care of my, uh, uh, my private hiking trails, because for some reason the students never go on, on the hiking trails. So I'm out there with my Labrador Retriever twice a day on what, 25, 000 acres beyond my house.

Um, that I can't understate how daily, regular exposure to the natural world is, um, so grounding and so, uh, so healthy for, for people. We developed in the early nineties, one of the projects that we set ourselves [00:36:00] to at Orion was for Developing a new form of education. Uh, we call it place based education.

And that education was a, um, uh, basically getting people out into their community. And it's not simply the nature of the community. It's that unique interwoven. Uh, uh, uh, nature and culture that defines it, a given place and it plays space. Educations use take kind of takes an interdisciplinary approach to learning about your own community.

And by doing so, you become a greater part of the continuum of that place. Uh, and I feel that, uh, that exposure to real community. Whether it be, it can be virtual and impact entrepreneur is global and therefore mostly virtual, but, but also very, uh, place based and, and, and local as well. [00:37:00] And to the extent that you can find that community and, and appreciate it and contribute to it.

Significant way. I think that that is a way to remain hopeful in a, uh, time with a lot of darkness.

Kt McBratney: Oh, so true. It's, it's funny. I actually had blocked out my calendar after this to go for what I call like a screen free walk. Do I keep my phone on me for emergencies and out of habit? Yes. Do I force myself and fight myself to fight the impulse to pick it up and listen to a podcast or be quote unquote productive?

I need to be productive. outside of a screen and, and being in nature. Sometimes it's 10 minutes. Sometimes it's longer. Sometimes I, as someone who's been working remotely for the better part of a decade, it's telling someone I want to do a walk and talk instead of a zoom. Right. And and [00:38:00] that idea of we're part of something bigger, both community and having yes, global and virtual and using technology to foster community and innovation and support and all of these movements.

And these businesses is beautiful, but we also need to know our neighbors. We need to know that that's an elm tree behind our house. We need to know that, you know, we are still part of something much bigger, both as people in relation to other people, but as just a human on this planet.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Yeah. Yeah Yeah

Kt McBratney: reminders I feel my cup has been refilled.

It was not empty, but I feel like today it's now overflowing from this conversation To wrap up. What is your ask of our community or is there an invitation to join? We're gonna have links in the show notes to impact entrepreneurs so they can Read get [00:39:00] involved. You've got great events regularly They can join the community all of those things, but is there an invitation or an ask of our audience?

Of which many are impact entrepreneurs themselves.

Laurie Lane Zucker: Yeah, well, um, the, the ask is basically what you just mentioned is just engage with us. I mean, we have, uh, put together a pretty powerful platform. Uh, we have our magazine. We just, um, expanded our, uh, group of, our team of contributing correspondents for the magazine.

Uh, up, we're now, we now have 50 Global correspondents who write for us regularly all over the world, um, our LinkedIn group, which we've been doing since day one, uh, and has tens of thousands of members on it, and very highly carefully curated so that everything Is, uh, is, is, is really on mission that shows up there, but, uh, these, [00:40:00] these forms really reveal this movement, uh, in powerful ways, uh, the looking through the stories that we're editing and publishing the stories that we do in our, uh, magazine, a magazine that is explicitly tied to Business and finance innovations that are advancing the sustainable development goals, as well, as well as related, uh, issues where we lump under impact economy issues.

Uh, and looking through the LinkedIn groups posts that happen throughout the day. You really just get a sense of just how dynamic, how rich, how innovative and creative this very fast growing community of professionals is around the world. So just engage with us and you'll learn a lot. And contribute, if you, if there are any writers, uh, who really understand the space [00:41:00] well, um, you can be a guest contributor, you can propose pieces to the magazine, we, uh, get those in throughout the week, and we, we love finding new articulate, um, yeah, uh, journalists to be, or, or, or, or existing journalists.

to write for us. Uh, yeah, you know, become a premium member. That's the way to get the, uh, the most out of impact entrepreneurs.

Kt McBratney: That was a beautiful invitation for all of the impact entrepreneurs listening. Those who are just saying, Oh, that's me. I never, I never realized that before. Um, and those who it speaks to the work you're doing, even if you are technically not the founder of a company, you could be an impact intrapreneur.

in your corporate world. Um, it's, it's very much a, a way of being. And so thank you Laurie so much for the time and wisdom. This has been just an absolute treat. We will put links to join the LinkedIn, the forum, the premium community, all of that, um, [00:42:00] in the comments. And please just lean on us. We are here for you.

And we are grateful for all that you have done over the years and the future of good that is to come.