Founded On Purpose

Kt McBratney: [00:00:00] Welcome to Founded on Purpose, the show where we get to know the people working to align business and impact, profit, and purpose. I'm your host, Kt McBratney. Each episode, we ask a different person building an interesting company, the same set of questions. They're founders, funders, community builders, and movement makers.

And while the questions might be the same, they unlock new perspectives and create purposeful conversation every time. Our guest today is Jessica Bell van der Wal, co founder and CEO of Frame Fertility, the all in one fertility support system with personalized care and a clinically backed approach. In her own words, she hopes that Frame is a breath of fresh air in the world of family building and fertility.

Jessica is deeply rooted in supporting fellow founders as a mentor, advisor, and advocate. Angel investor and friend. I met her through the amazing group BC Backed Moms and I'm super excited to bring our [00:01:00] conversations out of slack and share it with you all today. Jessica, welcome to the show.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Thank you so much for having me.

Thrilled to be here.

Kt McBratney: Now, as you know, we ask the same eight questions of every guest. Uh, there's no trick questions and I already know we're going to have a great discussion as we go. So let's kick it off with the first question. Number one. In one word, what is your purpose?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: It's so interesting to hear you ask that because I feel like My purpose and this sounds really cheesy.

Um Is purpose like I I know and I feel every day that you spend a lot of time at work um, you spend a lot of time, you know, if you're like me also running around chasing a a kiddo, um, And I feel like it's easy to get wrapped up in all different types of motivations, but at the end of the day Where I always feel at home and like I'm doing my best [00:02:00] work is when I have a purpose, um, and I am very clear about my purpose and my intention.

And it's interesting cause I've taken different paths, especially career wise, where I felt misaligned with my purpose. And, um, I guess at my core, um, is, you know, as overused as this term is. I belong at mission driven organizations. No question. Um, I feel like that's probably one of the reasons i'm in health care because it is one big complex web of Sometimes really illogical things.

Um, but I feel very Centered because my purpose is taking care of other people um, and so again, not to sound cliche, but I feel like My purpose is ensuring I am clear about my purpose and having a purpose, um, in, in everything that I do. It's really beautiful and I never connected that dot of purpose in healthcare before.

I don't know why typically you think about purpose in healthcare and it's a provider, it's a doctor, it's a practitioner, it's a [00:03:00] nurse. You think about the practicalities of being in the field and practicing. And not necessarily all the people who are working to keep those massive, complex systems going and, and your career in health care didn't, while you have a background in education in it, you've always worked in it, but it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice the whole time, or was it?

It's funny, it's, it's like it evolved very naturally for me and I, I wish I could tell you I exactly know how it all happened, but I think there's a few inspiration points. Um, one is, um, in my teen years. My mother spent a lot of time basically taking care of other family members that were sick some informally some more formally She actually volunteered in a hospice wing and when my grandmother was very sick, and I just saw her literally on the front lines of taking care of patients again family members, but patients and it just felt Again, almost [00:04:00] like very purposeful.

I was like this, this makes so much sense and what she's doing has so much value. And, and I didn't carry that into college where I thought, well, I want, I want to be a doctor. Um, this feels like the most tangible way to take care of others and to take care of patients. But interestingly enough, then when I ended up majoring in public health, I, I felt this kind of bigger vision, this kind of broader purpose, um, through public health.

And I think for me, it was this light bulb moment that it actually doesn't have to be one to one, um, you know, doctor, patient taking care of people in that way. With the lens of public health, I could actually take care of communities. I could take care of kind of broad sets of people and make sure that we're identifying themes of what's plaguing individuals health overall.

And so to your comment, It just kind of naturally evolved. And now I can't picture myself doing anything else. Um, I have left healthcare a couple of times and every time I almost instantly knew that I made a wrong decision. So it evolved naturally, but this is definitely my home. As [00:05:00] crazy as sometimes healthcare is, it's where I feel the most clear about why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Kt McBratney: And it's clearly a field. I think if we could even call it a field, it's so many fields. Where there's plenty of space and plenty of knots that need untangled and things that could run better or things that we're learning and discovering. It's, it's just rich with different opportunities for that entrepreneurial mindset, for that purposeful work, for that care, which I love.

I love that, that the, you've kind of braided those together in what you're doing with, with frame and with your own experience that led you to that, which. I appreciate how you shared that in other interviews. And of course we can share some of that or link to that, um, in the show notes, we might get to it.

Um, but I think that there's this really cool moment. With purpose and mission led founders and humans, right? You don't have to have founded the company to, to be working in that purpose, um, where our guts tell us a lot.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: [00:06:00] Absolutely.

Kt McBratney: We're going to move on to number two, question two, what was your most recent win?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Uh, it's interesting. Um, cause I actually was writing about this a couple of days ago and I haven't finished writing about it. Um, but my most recent win was. Actually a situation where um, my daughter got to see me speak on stage uh, and it was it was kind of interesting because the the the journey to get there is ironic because the whole week was actually Really chaotic.

I was on the road. I was meeting with customers and investors and partners Actually, there was a whole bunch of wins throughout it. It was a really fantastic week Um, I actually felt the week just like ending on a high and then I took the last flight out from new york I landed at 2 00 a. m. Um Basically, Saturday morning, and I forgot that I was supposed to speak on a panel that morning, um, and I, I remember myself just thinking, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this to myself, like, this is insane.

In person in person in person. I can only imagine like what I looked like, um, that morning, but you know, I [00:07:00] obviously got myself together. I drove to it. Um, but the nice thing was my husband brought my daughter. Um, and there's not a whole lot of situations where my daughter gets to see me speak. Actually, my in laws were there too.

And, you know, when I reflected on what made that whole week fantastic, like that's the, that's the image that like I took away from the week is, you know, I made it through but most importantly like she saw me up there and she saw Me on stage with a variety of different other people and she was proud of me and she was excited But she also I feel like could even identify You know mom mom is out there speaking mom is out there, you know communicating to others about you know What needs to be fixed in health care and it was just so fascinating and so interesting to even hear her reflections about the event so That was my biggest win, just her seeing me up there and hopefully feeling compelled herself to be up there on stage doing her thing at some point, too.

So that's, that's probably the biggest win I've had recently that I can really, [00:08:00] really remember and also feel very proud of.

Kt McBratney: Congrats on that. That's huge. And I think it's, it weaves together different elements of, Your why and your what. Right. Family's so core to not just why you started the company, but what you're literally doing every day.

And, and that idea of representation, but also that personal connection that it's normal for her to know that mom is running a business. Yep. Right. It's not the exception. It's not. It's she's growing up witnessing that. Mm-Hmm. and getting to share those moments is so, so special. Um, and I have so much as a, as a, as a parent myself, and I think my kid was 15 months old when I started my company founder parents, especially founder moms can literally do anything like the best multitaskers, the best prioritization, like for better or worse, like the wise are very complicated and sometimes not.

A great why that's that forcing function, but like to hear it come full circle and not [00:09:00] just the struggle part of it Which is absolutely real and needs discussed and needs solved and to share in those moments where like she got to see you on stage and didn't Oh, I got chills. I got chilled and now i'm like, well, my kid needs to see me do that

Jessica Bell van der Wal: I know exactly like you need to figure out a way to make it work.

It was such a serendipitous moment I was like, it's a weekend. It's local like This is fantastic. So yeah,

Kt McBratney: You can go out for pancakes or something get pancakes for the table.

Um, it's funny, my, my kid right now could care less about what I do for work. She just knows like mom talks to coworkers on the computer and sometimes she comes in and says, hi, like, and type that's what she knows of my job.

Um, in, in the startup and in the. In the ecosystem as being, and I'm like, do you explain to a kid what starting a business is when you work in tech and it's a little bit more amorphous and abstract, but that's a problem for a different day. Um, but being able to win, like to see you, to see you be an authority and a leader is just, So cool.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Yeah, it [00:10:00] was neat. And it to your comment. What's so fascinating is, um, my dad actually is, was an entrepreneur, too. He would never, I think, call himself that. Um, but if I reflect on my memories as a child, I do remember just thinking, you know, dad's out there running a company like I, you know, I wonder what it feels like, I wonder what it looks like, and no matter what, like, that, that did kind of somehow make its way into me, and now here I am, literally, like, combining the two of them, like, my mother and healthcare and him, and, uh, being an entrepreneur, and I, I did retain a lot of those feelings and pride, and so I hope that that is something, obviously, that she carries forward, too, so.

Kt McBratney: Let's switch gears to healthcare then, since we've talked about that a little bit, and you're digging into some really complex problems when it comes to, The family building, the fertility journey, and there's something really cool on your website that, that I just want to call out is when you explicitly say what you are not, uh, at frame and what [00:11:00] pieces of the equation you are solving for and for whom and who that includes.

Um, it's just really beautiful. Like saying we are not just for women and or heterosexual couples. We are not just for you. When you're trying to conceive, we are not just for you. When you want a first child. These elements, when we think about health care, health tech, women's health, these fields, and or more specifically, family building and fertility, so define your field as broadly or as narrowly as you'd like, it's your answer, what's the single biggest missed opportunity?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Well, I mean, I think the the core of frame. Uh, even though we support the entire journey, literally, like, to your comment, like, just curious all the way through, like, I'm struggling in treatment, um, and I feel myself spinning at 9 p. m. at night on social media. The, the core of FRAME really does originate, though, in the reality that we should know more [00:12:00] about what is going to be predictive of your fertility and, to some degree, pregnancy outcomes, and We should be screening for these things earlier.

And so I think to your comment, like what I see, we are building at frame is obviously like in many ways, like a really fascinating and important longitudinal data set, but the purpose of it is really to inform that we should. Ensure that we're actually looking at fertility related risk factors much earlier in the equation so that somebody doesn't reactively and clumsily kind of go through this journey.

And so, you know, at the end of the day, what I hope ends up happening is that this type of screening happens at your annual visit, both on the female side and on the male side. Again, it's. It's kind of wacky to me that, you know, all of this really falls on the woman's shoulders given that 50 percent of infertility is rooted in male factors.

And so this type of thing just needs to be screened for much earlier in the equation. We're starting to see that [00:13:00] actually because of the public health crisis that is happening around declining fertility rates. This is starting to become part of the fabric of care, not in the U. S. Yet. I hope we get there.

And that's what we're hoping to drive towards. But, you know, even in France, as an example, Emmanuel Macron just required fertility assessments at fertility assessments at a certain age. He started with the female side. And then I think over time he added the male side after some feedback. Um, but again, it just it isn't going to work if we're not better informing people, but also better screening for underlying risks earlier.

And so, in many ways, I think The, the gap that we're trying to solve for is in many ways kind of a preventative one. And I feel like so many of us in healthcare, like we all kind of started with this kind of preventative focus and that's where we're anchored. But sometimes that's hard to figure out the business model around.

Um, but again, I think it all has to come back to how do we be proactive, not reactive on this journey. Um, and so that's really kind of where we are focused at Frame. [00:14:00]

Kt McBratney: And has that proactivity been at the core of it since the beginning? Have you always had the clarity that the early identification, the early screenings was the key?

Or is that something you've learned in the, in the several years you've been building this?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: So it's interesting. It, it always has been at the core of why we built Frame. Um, because unfortunately, myself and my co founder, who's also my husband, Um, a lot of the outcomes we experienced as a result of our journey were because so many things were discovered reactively.

So, yes, it always has been proactive in nature. Um, but I would say if anything, What I learned is like, yes, that's a pain point, but the pain points actually extend well beyond that. So, what we found is actually that there's just so much work to be done end to end. Again, to my comment, like, it's not just early screening.

It's actually, then even if you find something, what do you do with it? Where do you need to go? How do we ensure that we're helping to support your next steps? And then obviously, if you go through fertility treatment, no matter [00:15:00] what, if you're doing it early in life or late in life, Um, how do we support you?

Because that is a lot, like that is a lot to go through. And I mean, the hormones alone, it is a really tough journey. You feel very isolated. So there's just so much work to do. Um, but actually funny enough, the proactive early identification of risk is, is part of the kind of core of why we built Frame from the very beginning.

Kt McBratney: We're going to switch gears a little bit from that related, though, when was the last time you were wrong?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: I feel like I'm wrong all the time. Um, that's the most common answer, by the way, like everyone is just like chuckles and is like today. Yeah, no, like I was, it's like five minutes ago. Um, so yeah, I mean, and I think that's so important for a founder and a leader, honestly, to be just transparent about when they screw up because it, it, you know, It culturally cascades.

Um, and you don't want your people to have a fear of making mistakes because it's going to happen. Like, absolutely. [00:16:00] It's going to happen. And so the best thing you can do is encourage people to be open and honest about it and to find. A way to learn and adjust. Um, so to your comment, like, I don't even know if I could parse through it.

I was definitely wrong multiple times this morning with my daughter for sure. Um, but I also feel like I was,

Kt McBratney: I was wrong about a toothbrush,

Jessica Bell van der Wal: like, of course, how dare you pick the, uh, the pink one versus the blue one. Right. Um, but I mean, even if I just reflect on like my last meeting, like. I, I was wrong about some assumptions I made about how we, uh, need to go about the contracting process with one of our customers.

So I feel like this founder journey is nothing but a lot of like learnings and mistakes over and over and over. And really all it is, is like, how will you rebound? Um, and I, again, there's so many like micro pivots, if not major pivots are going to experience. So can you adjust, can you learn? Can you rapidly [00:17:00] uh, kind of pivot your team, pivot yourself to overcome it and move forward. Um, so it feels like all the time.

Kt McBratney: Yeah. Like change, especially as a founder of an earlier stage company, right. Uh, you're still fairly small. You obviously had successes you raised. You are, you have momentum, as they say, you have traction.

Uh, it's, it's so interesting that like change is still a constant. And I think there's this misconception or this myth in. The startup world and in purpose led work that while, you know, some things, including the, why you're your perspective, the gap you're trying to solve for everything else is in flux.

And while you're learning it, right, like policy changes, thinking about health care, thinking about the difference between, uh, what is covered, what is recommended for male versus female patients, especially like with fertility, as you mentioned, but policy affects it, how well you slept can affect things, research [00:18:00] that just came out, what a competitor might be doing, what Elon Musk may have done.

There's all these different variables and then there's also such the human element, but there's this weird misconception that because you have traction and momentum, you know everything and you have it figured out. And so it's so encouraging to me and one of the reasons I love and have always loved these conversations and felt so called to have them in public is because we're all humans figuring it out.

None of us have done this before, whatever this is, raised a human, dealt with. A global pandemic like we all had to in various ways Built this company at this exact piece point in time with this information with this kind of pushback, etc Etc. It's all being wrong is kind of a commonality.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Yeah, totally Yeah, I couldn't agree more

Kt McBratney: and I love what you said about rebounding too because like that's that's what it is It's adjusting and it's how you handle it that it's how you weather the storm because they're gonna come

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Yeah.

And it's, it's [00:19:00] interesting too. I think, um, what I've learned over time, and actually my, my co founder does a really good job of this is, Kind of the worst thing you can do is not make a decision and not execute on it. Like if you get into this spin of like which direction to go and you're just yo yoing back and forth, it basically means you're not doing a lot of things.

Well, sometimes you are going to be wrong, but just make the decision based on the information you have and move forward. Um, you can always adjust, but I think the, the worst moments are when I feel like we've not made a decision and thus like poked around in the dark for a while and just Um, and so that's kind of the biggest takeaway that I've had to around mistakes and being comfortable with them because execution is really where a lot of these pieces really come together or not.

Um, so

Kt McBratney: I'm like, I can't underline on audio, but I'm like, yes, that speaking of decisions. And making a [00:20:00] choice, knowing that you don't know exactly how it's going to unfold. What is a hill that you would die on? On anything, it could be in business, it could be in life, it could be whatever, but what is the thing that you are like, I will go down with this belief, with this soapbox, etc.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: I feel like there's actually a lot of them in this bucket. Um, I, I fundamentally believe that the world will be a better place when there are more female leaders. Like, No question. You can argue with me all day, every day. Well, like I, that is a kill. I will die on any day to your comment. Like I, the more that I have worked in to some degree, the space of women's health, um, which, you know, fertility is kind of interestingly in and not in all at the same time, but as a result of working in women's health, I have been exposed to more female leaders than I ever have in my entire career.

Um, and it has been [00:21:00] so. enlightening. It has been so inspiring. It has been so just wonderful to work alongside them. And I, I think about the hard work they do every day. Um, and I just, I just know that if there were more of us out there leading, not only just women's health companies, but any company out there, we would be balancing almost to your like opening comment about this podcast, we'd be Profit and purpose, because women have this miraculous ability to think about both at the same time and balance both.

And it is just incredible to see up front. Um, and I, I just love it. Um, and so every day of the week, like happy to debate this. Um, I would always want to see more women leading companies, leading organizations, like in every capacity, more female leaders, just 110%. [00:22:00]

Kt McBratney: I will join you on that hill happily, happily, happily.

And I feel like the audience here, uh, is going to agree versus debate, which is, which is beautiful. And it's one of the reasons that like, in our theses, we call out like women and historically excluded and overlooked founders, right. Um, because of that belief and there's data, we know there's data to back it up.

Like, it's not, it's not just a belief and it can be both. I love it. So, okay, running a company and being a parent kind of a lot, speaking from my experience, not projecting that onto you, but it's hard. Yep. Yep. Every day is different. There's these challenges. Uh, we're constantly learning and making mistakes.

There's all these demands on our time. And also, We believe, and um, it's part of the reason that our Venture Studio is called Pixel Recess, that play is really important in so many things. In building beautiful products, in solving problems, in building great teams, in having perspective and insights in the world for our mental health.

All of the [00:23:00] reasons. So for question six, how do you play? What does play look like in your life, and how do you make time for it?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: I love that, especially because I feel like I'm constantly thinking about this for my daughter. Um, you know, I'm, I'm a little interesting as it results to play, and I, I feel, um, mixed about my answer, because I know it's not quite as balanced as I want it to be.

Um, but, but this is just the reality of the way I've always been. And it's actually funny enough the way my father is too. I tend to be a bit extreme about play. Um, so I, I am one of those people that like, I love to like, take these kind of all out adventure trips for like, One to three weeks, um, and just like completely shut off and like go do something completely crazy Um, so, you know as an example when I was 20 My dad and I went and climbed mount kilimanjaro together and it somehow kind of sparked something in me to just want to do [00:24:00] these kind of wild adventure things because i've never felt like more connected to myself and What I believe and what I think when i'm kind of pushed It kind of it all ends and definitely have no connection to any device I would say.

Um, And so I love doing kind of extreme sports. Um, uh, but again, it's like it's probably a very extreme version of it Because I tend to have to do them like in these like large chunks Like I also did um everest not the full mountain but like everest base camp. Um, a few years ago and that was just one of those moments where I felt again kind of Re centered in myself and like what I want to do in the world and interestingly enough Not long after that I started frame and so play for me is To some degree a bit of an extreme.

Um, because I just love to be like fully unleashed um, like I am I'm somebody if if you like jumping out of planes and bungee jumping and all those sorts of things like i'm in um, i'm sure my Bored with hate to hear this. [00:25:00] Um, but uh, but like those are the types of things I'm very i'm very organized about it.

Um, yeah, but I like I love being like pushed to my absolute limit. Um, Because there's nothing else you can think about literally nothing else like there's no space for anything else. So I I love like making space for those types of excursions. Um, otherwise I feel like I'm kind of just a goofball and I probably play through, uh, experiences typically around food.

Um, uh, and I love to kind of cook with my daughter and things like that too. Um, but, but yeah, I'm more of an extreme sports person.

Kt McBratney: The reality is. It sometimes in our world today takes going to Kilimanjaro or Everest base camp, which by the way, amazing. Love how you just casually dropped that. Like it's not an incredible achievement that so many people have on their bucket list.

Wow. And also you're right. Like if you are doing those things, like you cannot be wondering, [00:26:00] like what's trending on tick tock or looking at your KPIs or, or, or, and it forces you in a world that's constantly forcing us to be connected and tethered to devices. And to productivity, I love that you found a way that you're like, no, I'm just going to unsubscribe for a while and beautiful things have come from it.

So cool. We talked a bit about like your relationship and how, how your parents and their professions and their fields influenced you and working with your co founder, you said some really great things around managing change and, and that relationship. You're also probably, if you're like any other founder getting hit with advice, solicited and unsolicited constantly.

How do you know what advice to take and what to let go?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Yeah, it's it's really difficult. Um, I won't minimize it because i've also made some wrong decisions as a result of advice i've gotten. I mean we We charted down a business model in the beginning that I I almost [00:27:00] instinctively knew was wrong But that was the advice I was given and it's probably one of my like bigger regrets But on the other hand, like I almost feel like we had to do it to to disprove.

Um, You What others were saying. Um, but it is really, really hard. There's so much noise to your comment. Um, I think there's a couple pieces of the equation that are really important for me. Um, there are kind of Two people in my life that I feel like are very essential for me to like center and almost like Digest the feedback and then say it back out loud It's interesting like a lot of times I feel like the feedback will like roll around in my brain and not until I've verbalized It and almost like said it out loud to somebody do I realize either how crazy it sounds or like do I realize actually?

What what it is that I believe about that feedback? So most of the time it's like I need to get it out of my head and so there's two people that I tend to rely on to do that with one is my co founder and Again, um as crazy as this is like my co founder's my husband and I think it's The most [00:28:00] brilliant decision we made to actually do this together for a whole host of reasons But there's so much trust there and we're so much of a kind of yin and yang So most of the time I will go to him with something that i'm wrestling with Um, and he and I will be able to work through it Um, but if it's, it's something that actually I need almost like an unbiased third party, cause obviously he's a little biased.

He works for the same company as me. Um, he also is biased probably as being my husband. Um, I have more or less a co founder coach, um, Which he sums it up brilliantly. It's like a therapist with an action orientation. So he is my kind of other center that I'll go to when I'm struggling with something that, again, I, I worry I need an unbiased response to.

And again, we'll just talk through it. And most of the time we'll talk, I'll go outside, I'll call him. We'll spend an hour on the phone, just dialoguing around it. Um, now you don't always have the ability to like have that conversation. That like dialogue and space for processing. And so I think I've tried to get better over time.

And I think this is probably [00:29:00] why, you know, people that have been founders multiple times, you know, you get better each time, but I've really just tried to like center around what does my gut say? Because what I have learned is that nine times out of 10, and probably even more than that, My gut is the right answer and it's actually just me learning to trust my own gut because every time I've gone against my gut There's a part of me that later on Knows that I made the wrong decision and I live with it and I process it and I move on but and if I don't Have time for either my co founder or my coach like just lean on my gut Again, most of the time that actually is correct.

And no matter how many times people will convince you that you don't know enough. Uh, I think as a founder, like one of the things I have to remember is like, I know more about my business than anyone else. I'm like, I absolutely do. No one else can convince me of that, but it's easy to forget it. Um, but it's something that I really try to keep.

Centered and front of mind when people bring me [00:30:00] feedback

Kt McBratney: so hard agree to all of that. It's beautiful advice on advice. Um, and also it's Yeah, it's funny. I said that to a founder today. I was like, you know your business better than I ever will. You asked for my my perspective from a certain vantage point has certain domain of expertise, and I'm happy to give that to you.

And also, please know I know what I know, and I don't know You know, the way you'll ever know it. It's it's, it's so hard out there with so much noise. It's a very noisy, it's a very noisy path to go down, but also really rewarding and beautiful and full of ups and downs and highs and lows and lots of twisty turns.

All right. We're rounding out. We're at question eight. This went so fast and was so delightful. I'm like, damn, I should have planned more.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: I was just going to ask you, which question are we on? So, all right.

Kt McBratney: Already. And this is a fun one too, I think they're all fun, but you know, I'm biased. It's [00:31:00] my show.

Founders wear all the hats, regardless of your company, regardless of the stage you're at, regardless of how great you are at delegation and the team you have. There's just lots of jobs that ultimately fall to you and also lots of different talents that you bring to the table as the founder, right? As somebody who's running the company, you are bringing all of you in different ways.

So, what's your least favorite part of your job and what's your most favorite?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: I wonder how many people will say fundraising, um, for least favorite, um, I'll start with most favorite.

Kt McBratney: Certainly was not my favorite.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Yeah, I was gonna say, I, I, I, I would love to meet the founders that love it. Um, I know there are actually a couple, I so i'll start with most favorite.

Um, because it kind of again, there's like a dovetail probably to my least favorite I mean my most favorite is um, I I'm, I love being out on the road talking to our customers [00:32:00] Um as much as I possibly can, uh, and that includes pretty much, you know Anyone that will talk to me whether it's a patient or you know, one of our provider partners um, so I wouldn't say it's like I know this is under the bucket of sales, but it's You To some degree, like being the external face of the company is incredibly tiring.

I'm not going to sugarcoat it, but I love spending time on the road, kind of managing relationships. So I don't really know like what, what bucket or what function you put that under, but like the relationship side of this is incredible. Like I, no matter what role I've ever had, like being the CEO of a company, there's something interesting that happens with that, where like, you know, People would like to talk to you, um, for no other reason other than you're just the CEO.

And like, I, I love like being at conferences, meeting other partners, meeting other customers, talking to people that have gone through this. Like it is, it is such a privilege. To hold that role where [00:33:00] people want to share with me, how can we work together? How can we partner together? And so it, again, it is a true honor to be sitting in this chair from that perspective, to be the external face that people want to interact with.

Cause it means that like I'm on the front lines constantly. Getting feedback, um, but also getting the stories like it is it is just awesome. Um, it is a very special place to be um now on the flip side of that, um, the ceo and co founder role, um, Like I mentioned, uh, you can also be a little bit overextended in that capacity and and I will say like I do think fundraising is hard, but I think I think the reality of, um, having to be out there on the road, also convincing people that they should invest in you and you just so acutely know that this needs to exist in the world is is hard.

Mostly when you just feel like you're out of sync with the person that you're talking to where they just can't see the same for us through the trees that you can. So, [00:34:00] Um, I think my least favorite part is more just, um, when I'm in a situation where I just can't get someone over the hump to understand the big vision and what we're really tackling.

Um, and that, that happens in a variety of situations that happens in any type of sales situation too. So, um, so again, it's kind of the pro and the con of being the face where some people are going to love what you do and some people are going to say, I just get, I just don't get it. Um, and so it's a high and low that you're constantly experiencing.

But the funny thing is like. I'll take all of it. I'll take all of it, because in the end, it is fantastic, and again, it is such a privilege to be in this seat, so.

Kt McBratney: Well, ultimately, you're, you're solving such a deeply human Universal experience. Yeah, we're talking about reproduction, which is something regardless of what you choose What your circumstances are?

What factors are in play like it's kind of a constant. It's kind of a [00:35:00] thing You can pretend that it's not but people are going to keep making More people or not, that's that is a thing. It's so deeply human and so nuanced and it sounds beautiful to be able to have that connection and to listen with that empathy and also simultaneously be able to use that feedback in a productive way, not an extractive way to say, how can we care for that?

Whether or not it's us solving that problem, maybe it's a partner, or maybe it's we've got to think of something else, or maybe I can just hold space for that. That's like so deeply human and personal, and also inadvertently ties back to what you opened up with the first question about, right, with what your purpose is, is purpose, your purpose is having purpose, and that's, So beautiful.

Oh, thank you so much. I feel like I'm like, again, I'm like, yeah, I should have whipped up some extra questions. We could, so I could just keep talking to you and everyone else can listen. Um, first of all, thank you for [00:36:00] being here. This was an absolute delight. We're going to have links to frame all of that.

So people can check out what you're building. Um, learn more, get involved, all of that. Then we don't believe in shame, uh, in, uh, Shameless self promotion. We believe in shame free self promotion. So is there anything you want to plug? Is there any link you want folks to check out? Any way you want to get in touch with or any asks that you have of our audience of founders, funders, and people who care?

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Yeah. No, thank you. Um, it's been such a joy. Uh, so I guess a couple of things to think about if you want to follow up with me and or Frame. So obviously you can go to our website, um, frameyourfuture. com. Um, Frame Fertility also works too. Uh, and I would say in particular, if you are in any way struggling with fertility or family building or just have questions, there's always a way to book a free 10 minute consult on our website, um, and you can talk to somebody on our care team and at least just get you pointed in the right direction.

Um, doesn't need to be with FRAME, we just want to make sure that you have the resources that you need. So, That's obviously for [00:37:00] people that are interested in need support. Um, the other thing to note is frame partners with healthcare providers. So we work with OBGYN groups and primary care groups, um, as well as fertility clinics to provide wraparound services, to improve the patient and the clinician experience on the fertility journey.

So if you were a doctor, a nurse, a provider administrator at any capacity, we would love to work with you too. And there's so much to be. Improved about the journey on both sides, again patient and provider. So, um, something else to note as well and you can find a link on our website to fill out a form there.

Um, or you can email us at partners at framefertility. com. Um, on me, I will say like I'm not a big social media person. So, the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. Uh, I have started to become, A little bit more talkative there just because I feel like it's almost my duty to also share what I'm learning and Experiencing also as a founder.

So linkedin is probably the best place to find me and you can message me there as well, [00:38:00] too But not as active on the other social media platforms. I try to stay off as much as I can.

Kt McBratney: You are Building and running a company. So I feel like you get a pass for not being, you know, trying also doing the side hustle as an Instagram influencer.

Jessica Bell van der Wal: Like, oh, goodness gracious permission to not do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Kt McBratney: But this was a joy. And even in, even in your, in your asks and your offers, you reiterated something that I think I read in an interview you gave in 2022. Um, me putting my journalism degree to use and doing the research for the show, where you shared that one of the biggest reasons that led you to co found Frame is to help people know that they are not alone.

So thank you for that. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your insight, your joy, your passion and your purpose with [00:39:00] us.