Founded On Purpose

FoP_Navroze Mehta_Audio+Transcript
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Kt: [00:00:00] Welcome to Founded on Purpose, a podcast from RenewVC. I'm your host, Kt McBratney, and I'm so excited to have with us today in the guest seat, a serial entrepreneur, an impact champion, and a fan of artists, I would say, Navroze Mehta joining us from Vermont today. Welcome to the podcast.

Navroze: Thank you.

Delighted to be here.

Kt: We ask every guest the same eight questions. None are trick questions. We're not trying to stump you. But really what we want to do is get an idea of the person behind the purpose, behind every business, especially purpose led, social impact businesses. There is a person who saw the idea, who saw the need, and that's who we, who we get to know.

on this show. So, with no further ado, let's just jump in with question one. Navroze, in one word, what is your [00:01:00] purpose?

Navroze: One word, um, I would say awareness of, of, of, um, I guess that's one word. So, I would say, uh, it's, the, the main purpose is, is, is, is driving awareness.

Kt: I love that word. It also doesn't surprise me knowing what you do in one of your companies and the one that we met and got to collaborate over, Mela Artisans.

And

Navroze: I would say, like, thinking about it more deeply, awareness to cause certain things, and I would say the other big word that comes to me is empowerment. It's empowerment of each of these artisan clusters who do not Want a handout. They want to be empowered to do what they are great at doing. So awareness causing empowerment

Kt: It's like an equation

Navroze: Yeah, because if you are, if people are aware of the [00:02:00] talent and the ability to make change, then they become changemakers.

And um, so you can't have empowerment without more and more people getting, becoming aware of, uh, of what the, you know, what talent and what heritage crafts and, And designs and skill sets are there. So I think they go hand in hand.

Kt: Piggybacking off of that, or maybe even slightly different, what was your most recent win?

And that could be in business, any business. It could be personally. It can be something obvious, however you choose to define it, which is why I love this question.

Navroze: I think the most recent win is, um, We are, we are working closely with brands who really would like to crack the code of sourcing from India from sustainable sources.

And I think working and understanding that [00:03:00] these brands are now becoming more and more aware that India is this immensely rich area, part of the world, uh, that they could make their brands, uh, kind of triple bottom line. sustainable brands like a Patagonia like brand and they can be like that and still be profitable is a big aha moment for many CEOs right now and many private equity firms.

So the big win for me was meeting with some of these brands in LA recently and hearing that back saying we are ready.

Kt: Okay, I have a question, as someone who does not work in that world.

Navroze: Yeah.

Kt: What does sustainable sourcing look like? I think people have an idea, just any lay person, of what sustainability is, but it's also kind of a relative term, and for people who don't work in retail, in intangible goods, and into that supply chain.

What do we mean by sourcing in that context?

Navroze: I think sustainable [00:04:00] sourcing, there's also many ways we talk about ethical sourcing. We talk about making sure that you know what your, you know, where your product's coming from. Uh, you work with clusters that are making a fair wage. So there's many different elements to it.

So sustainability is one element of it. But it's a comprehensive list of what I would call socially impactful sourcing. Um, so I think um, I think when you do that, it's it's it's different elements that so if you're buying hard goods You're buying sustainable You are not You're working in an environment that's been compliant and has got all the social compliance has completed with means fair wages appropriate uh you know solutions and and and uh programs for the artisans in this case.

And, um, and so from, from our perspective, it's, it's more comp, you know, that question is, and answer is more, more, you know, comprehensive. [00:05:00] And it's the, and using organic cotton, for example, you know, like those are all, um, using mango wood, which is refore, you know, which if, if you are foresting it, it's reforested, the pro, there's a program to re, Uh, integrate the forest.

So all of those are very well thought through programs that need to be in place. And that's what sustainability and, um, and, and doing, you know, sourcing ethically and impactfully is all about,

Kt: which, which we've talked about this as we've collaborated with Mela and, and Renew, consumers are wanting more of that.

And at the same time, they can buy it and they can support those brands. But at the same time, They aren't the ones sourcing the products and so having these conversations from folks like you and CEOs about how, not just meeting customer demand because of course CEOs want to make a profit. That's, that's the game, right?

And but also meeting that consumer need that is rooted in [00:06:00] care and wanting to support things that are good for the planet, that are good for people, it all kind of comes together. So it's really heartening to hear that your win was in service of that.

Navroze: Yes, exactly. And it was, it, it, you know, it takes, uh, I think it takes many different things to happen for a large, like this case, was a 350 million public company to come to that realization that You Our customers want this and we better pay attention and I think that was very heartening to see.

So, I think, uh, it shows the, the power of a brand like that Mela can have an overarching influence over many brands and allowed, uh, something, something catalytic to happen. We

Kt: love that. We love that. All right. So, question three, what is the biggest single missed opportunity in your field?

Navroze: I think the biggest single missed opportunity is kind of what I had mentioned.

[00:07:00] Before, is brands going after fast fashion? It's very difficult to do what we are doing. It's not easy. It's taken 14 years for us of hard work building this network Um, there's not a lot of appreciation from From capital, as we know, as we found out, to appreciate this and support heritage crafts and do, even though consumers are screaming for it.

Consumers are wanting what we are offering. Uh, but it's, it's been negated by cheap products, fast fashion, uh, that is now slowly starting to have, uh, The, the, the generation, uh, you know, uh, that's coming, you know, the, the millennials started this. They, they initiated, you know, the, the, We got one

Kt: thing right.

We will take it. Yeah.

Navroze: Exactly. I like both of those. But the mill, the millennials absolutely got it right because they shop with purpose. And I think you can talk for yourself, I [00:08:00] can talk for my daughter, Sonali, who gets a lot of credit for starting and founding Mela, by the way, it was her idea when she was in India working on this.

Um, I think, uh, her friends, everyone, they look at the label, they check what the material is, they, and like I'm sure you do, you will buy something and you'll pay more for something that, um, that, you know, has a purpose. And so I think it's very important to tell that story. So the missed opportunity is that not moving faster.

Not, there'd be not more, and I don't mean to keep using Patagonia, but I do use them as my big, kind of a beacon of how to get things right. Um, there should be more Patagonia, like, there should be a premium that people should be, you know, they should pay, and that brands should be given that, uh, that motivation and that, that license to take a risk and, uh, and do more of what we are suggesting they do.

Kt: Yeah. So much to chew on there. I'm like, my wheels are turning, but I'm going to keep the questions going [00:09:00] because I think we're going to pull on some more of those threads as we go.

Navroze: Okay.

Kt: When was the last time you were wrong?

Navroze: Well, every day. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's a definite what's right or wrong, like you said, you know, so I think you learn from it's not I mean, I don't look at it being wrong.

You sometimes may not get it right, you know, as the way I look at it. And, um, and the key is to acknowledge it and. Admit it and learn from it and move on. So I think there's um, Um, I did a license, you know, there's many I mean there are things that i've got wrong in a big way Sometimes where you do a licensing deal you say, you know a year later.

It's like what the heck? Why did I do that, you know? That was so

Kt: human and I think that's the thing that that for folks who maybe are new to entrepreneurship or who have never been in conversations with Chairs of the board with founders with, with entrepreneurs that they [00:10:00] view as successful like, like you are and how you've been successful in your different businesses.

And there's this assumption that they know it all and they never, they never make mistakes or get something not right. And I still appreciate that framing and also you having the awareness to say like, I'm human. Of course, there's something that, that wasn't a hundred percent right.

Navroze: No, you learn a lot from, I mean, I can say there were so many, you know, learnings along the way on Mela.

So many things you looked, but I think the key is to acknowledge, to learn not to make the same mistake twice because that can be, then, then it starts becoming expensive, but to learn from your mistakes and, but always be looking ahead. I mean, that would be my suggestion is like, if you keep. You know regretting looking in the back view, you know rearview mirror Um, I don't think that's productive in my point of view again I'm not being judgmental because some people like to be very analytical and study there but [00:11:00] to me, it's like i'm kind of I think sometimes being an entrepreneur you have to be pretty optimistic and And and pretty forward thinking Thinking and, and I tend to be like that.

Like, okay, well that happened. Wasn't great. You know, we made a mistake. Let's learn from that and move on.

Kt: My good friend, Emily, who's, uh, she's been leading the company she founded for over a decade. She calls it pathological optimism. It's almost to the point of delusion. You have to No. Be reasonable.

Right? We live in a real world. There are real constraints, real consequences, but to be an entrepreneur, and it certainly tracks to my experience as a founder and working side by side with founders, that optimism, I agree with you. I think the optimism carries you through so much. Yeah. The good and the bad, you know, it helps carry through those, those mistakes or those learnings or things that didn't go as planned, but it's also wind in the sails when things are going well.

Navroze: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think you have to, um, and I think it's also [00:12:00] for the team. The team wants to have a leader that's not delusional. I think that's probably going a little too far. But I think, uh, like pathologically optimistic is a good term.

Kt: That's why I'm like, give her credit because I did not come up with that.

But it's almost true. You have to believe because it is hard. You get, you get told no, you face obstacles to capital, things like, I don't know, a global pandemic happened and you just have to figure it out.

Navroze: Yeah, we have to figure it out. We had to like, I mean, that's a great example. The global pandemic happened.

And we had containers that we had BOs for. From huge billion dollar companies that cancelled even though they were like, so what does Mela do like many brands obviously like folded because they didn't have any option and but but you know, in India, when we have a half hour team in India or more, um, it really wasn't an option to fall, you know, what would these what [00:13:00] would these amazing like employees who've been with us for You know, sometimes five ten years So we all got together.

We used zoom to its maximum and we said, you know what we're gonna make This whole company and Amazon, you know, centric because we had always had that on our to do list is just an example of using all of our resources to take a very catalystic, you know, an event that was very, um, like significant and severe.

And change it into an event that makes something good come out of it. So everyone got on a Zoom every day for half an hour and had a task. Even if they were not skilled in graphic design, they learned graphic design. And they did something to make every task Hundreds of SKUs of Mela ready to be put on Amazon.

And that was our mission, every day. And, like, that's how we kept going, because there was nothing else to do. There were no orders, no customers to talk to. And we said, okay, [00:14:00] well, we'll come out of this with a completely Amazonified company. And they'll give us another major channel which you wouldn't have had before.

So that's how, and we did, actually.

Kt: And then you've got all these people who are now, many of whom, Working from home, spending so much time at home looking around saying, I actually want something that I care about and that means more and is more sustainable. So you've got customers kind of primed while you're also diversifying your channels and, and leading with that optimism that the world was bound to reopen.

Navroze: Yeah,

Kt: exactly. Clearly happened, so we were right on that. Good one, optimists. Um, and then you, you ended up with something that you had wanted to do already and puts you in a different position now. Yeah.

Navroze: Yeah. And I think it's appreciated everyone behaved like a family and like supported each other and we didn't have to lay off a single person during the entire pandemic.

And I think it was, you know, people then when it's tough times later will also pitch in and know that you [00:15:00] have their back, you know. So I think that's what's important. More so, it's more for empathy. Like, I think if there's one important word that comes out of all of these learnings, it's like be empathetic.

Be empathetic, you know? Have empathy. Many, like, leaders, like, they act like it's a thing of strength to not be empathetic, but, you know, I think, uh, I think that's insane to me. I mean, I think, um, if, you know, I think it's a cornerstone of, uh, leading a, uh, a fruitful life is, is first of all teaching your kids empathy and then being empathetic yourself, of course.

Kt: Yes, I feel like I'm with you. I feel like Turning off empathy when you clock in is turning off a piece of being human. Yeah. And how can you expect to be a good leader if you're turning off that piece of you that allows you to relate to others and see opportunities instead of being opportunistic.

Navroze: But look at, look at the C suite now, there's so many quote unquote of [00:16:00] these bombastic leaders who like are clearly not empathetic, you know?

And Uh, and they, they're proud about, like, firing people and, like, doing, and, like, okay, look, you know, you may have to do certain things in life, but you can still have empathy when you do it, you know, and that's, it's, it's a, it's a trait. And, and look, I'm not stating anything new, but I think it's, it's something that's, uh, lacking.

Kt: Yeah, I mean, there are definitely cultural, I could go down a whole rabbit hole on this, which I will try not to. But yeah, there are definitely cultural, nice condition. Yeah. Yeah. Ideas about empathy, about vulnerability, about transparency, and, and even emotion. And, I can just say that we will not likely have any non empathetic leaders on this show.

Okay, question five, we're, we're past the halfway mark. What hill would you die on? What's a belief, uh, a tenant, something that is just something that you're like, no matter what, [00:17:00] I can argue anybody into this, I believe this wholeheartedly. Nobody can convince me otherwise. I

Navroze: mean, it has to be integrity. You know, you have to have no gray areas where integrity is concerned.

I mean, I feel it has to be, because you have to sleep at night black and white, where it comes to important elements of what's your guiding principles. I think people get on a slippery slope when they say, well, that's okay. To me, I've been able to do that where, like, I've had, um, No, it's black and white.

Like I keep my, you know, that's how I, it's all what my reputation is built on what my high sleep, you know, well at night, because you. You have to have high integrity in everything you do, in your relationships, and trust, you know? So, you trust people until they tell, until they teach you not to, you know?

And so, I think integrity and trust is a very cornerstone for me to, like, uh, in [00:18:00] terms of relationships.

Kt: How does that tie back to some of the things you've said about empathy and optimism? How does that play with the idea that integrity is, is a non negotiable?

Navroze: Um, I think Well, I think, I think they're little, they all go hand in hand, obviously, but I think, um, uh, empathy is, I think, a different kind of emotion to, integrity is a cornerstone of like, it shouldn't even be thought about.

It's like it, it's part and parcel. Being empathetic is, is something that You know, you, you either as a child that value, and I don't, I mean, you can teach empathy. I think that's true, but, and I've done, by the way, in YPO, we've had speakers come and talk to our CEOs about empathy. So I think people can be more aware of how to be empathetic.

But generally, you get taught that as a kid, you know, I feel it's the values you're [00:19:00] Parents or whoever brought you up teach you. Um, I think integrity is the same way. Like, you know, you learn from your surroundings and you learn from your leaders and your parents. So I think if you've got good role models who say no, you know, like this is not right.

And I don't care how much money you make. No. You don't do it. I think it's all, it goes hand in hand with that. So, um, you said empathetic, and what was the other? Oh, optimism. But I

Kt: think you also hinted on that a little bit with what you said about trust, right? Some, you, you can trust someone until they prove the view otherwise requires a bit of optimism, would you say?

Navroze: Correct. No, you believe in people, you know, like you, you let them prove your, I mean, I think sometimes it's hard to, um, it's hard to, like, um, sometimes some people are so difficult to understand or so different from you that it's hard to be optimistic about them, but you have to let them prove you wrong, you know, like that.

That [00:20:00] they have, so I try that, but I can't say I'm always successful, you know, and so it's difficult, but, but, uh, but optimism, I think, you know, obviously you want your optimism to not, like, you don't want to go over the line of allowing your optimism to not be truthful, you know, either, so I think you have to be careful about that because then you wouldn't, you'd lose your integrity.

Kt: That's a great point, and you mentioned this a little bit when you talked about, you know, Making a decision to draw a line and choosing integrity over, for example, profit. And that that leads me to this next question. And there's some interesting threads there because we are in an always on world. You know, your products like Mela, for example, is on Amazon, is on your website.

People can buy them literally. Any time of day, which means you can monitor the business any kind of any time of day, which means you could always be on a [00:21:00] screen. You could always be obsessing over the numbers. And and we really believe in one of the things that drew me to this team at Renew is this idea that that we need play that if we only obsess and focus on the work.

One, we're missing out of being a part of being human, but two, the work will actually suffer because we are so narrowly focused. We're not getting any other inputs. We're not getting any other joy, any creativity, any other data that might influence how we work. So, I'm curious how you play. What does the play look like for you?

Even outside of the office or, you know, within work.

Navroze: Yeah, I mean, for me, my biggest kind of, uh, uh, downtime is tennis, for example. So, I play tennis four or five times a week. Uh, play a lot of tennis. And, uh, I also bike and I hike. And, and actually it's also, you know, family time like with my wife, [00:22:00] um, my kids when I'm in India, like I spend a lot of time with both my daughter and my son and like, you know, I think those are all very kind of joyous, fun times for me.

And also spending time with friends. I mean, I'm very social. I love going out to dinner with like all of her friends. So I think, um, it's a combination of all of that. So I like to work hard, but I also like the downtime. So when I'm You know, tennis, I, I don't check my phone, like, you know, I, I switch off, uh, and I just play tennis, you know, and, uh, enjoy that kind of complete, uh, you know, separation.

Uh, difficult to do, I can't say I'm successful, and my wife would argue that I don't do it very well. So, like, there's definitely We are all a work in

Kt: progress. I know. Well, and I love that there are some elements of, in hearing what you do in these practices that you have to integrate play, there's movement, there's skill, there's artistry involved.

I have played tennis. It is, there is an art and a science [00:23:00] to it. There's getting outside, there's being social, getting around people that aren't just professional contacts. Yeah. So like, weaving that together, it's really beautiful how you've kind of woven a tapestry of different things. to keep your cup full while also you still can uphold the boundaries and the responsibilities of, of building a really successful and purposeful business.

Navroze: Right. And I think, um, travel is a, and cultural, like, touchpoints, new cultural touchpoints are huge for me. Uh, it just keeps me very alive in meeting new people and seeing people with amazing skills, whether it be in Mexico or in Indonesia or in Vietnam or in India. Um, it's, that discovery is like so invigorating.

Um, and so just traveling all over the world is like when I, during the pandemic, that's the thing I missed most. I hadn't, I didn't leave the country for, um, a year and three months, and that's the longest I've not been outside [00:24:00] this country in 30 years.

Kt: You've been, you've been building Mela Artisans for 14 years.

It's not your first company. It's not your second, and I don't think it will be your last. You make up some of the rules of those businesses and everyone has opinions and best practices. So how do you know what advice to take and what advice to say thank you and move on?

Navroze: I mean, look, there's always, the way I look at it is when I talk to people or CEOs and I belong to, I think I told you this group called YPO, so I'm in touch with a lot of people.

Good. very successful CEOs. So in my opinion, there's always learning to be had, you know, from learning how people run their companies. So I never feel like I have the right answer to everything. But I do feel that over years, I like systems and solutions that have worked for me. And I like to, I tend to be a bit more [00:25:00] If something's really working for me, I like to tell other CEOs, like, for example, there's a system called EOS, it's called entrepreneur operating system.

It's not, it's a pretty, I mean, you've not heard of it. It sounds like, but maybe there's a lot of people who have, it's not that uncommon. I found it to be a real success formula. It's a great kind of common language. So I've told a lot of CEOs about it. Similarly, like, there are, you know, a lot of learnings that I've had from other CEOs, but there are many things that, uh, on the flip side, that people will say, well, I have this type of a system, I do this, and it's a rigor that I like, and it's not for me.

It's not how I would run my company. So I disregard those type of, you know, it may be great for his management style or her management style, but certainly. doesn't resonate with how I would run a company. [00:26:00] But I think there's some guiding principles that I think are valuable, you know, when you do this. I think, I, I believe that having, uh, an open system where everyone can speak and have, and have, very short meetings, ideally even stand up meetings when you had an office, um, people should always be able, like, flat organization where people can speak their minds, especially in organizations like ours, which are very purpose driven, you don't want to stifle.

But then you are, there's all one, The guiding rule that I've always had is that, okay, you listen to everything you make, but you be decisive, you know, you make a decision and then everyone gets on that bus where dysfunction happens is where people then say, well, I didn't agree with that and, but then you get off the bus, you know, the point is you make, you've got a chance, everyone debates it.

then move forward. You make a decision and everyone then has to rally around that [00:27:00] decision. I think what becomes dysfunctional is if you tolerate a lot of continuing dissent, whatever, because if someone feels very strongly, then they might have to leave the company. Because they may, if they feel that strongly, then they should, you know, that's the, or they have a private discussion, you thrash it out, talk about, but they should not be open.

That's where I think what causes, I'm talking broadly in terms of management styles, that's what causes a lot of dysfunction in companies, is when there's not decisive, when, when first of all, you don't allow people to truly be open and understand that their ideas may not be get to the finish line or they may not because they may not be the best thing for the company.

But however, they should feel that they're always being fairly listened to. And that they are being conservative. They don't get that if they just feel we are paying them lip service, then that's a failed, uh, you know, exercise.

Kt: There's that empathy and that integrity showing up again. [00:28:00]

Navroze: Yeah, it's the integrity of like saying, yeah, I'm really listening to you.

And I feel that I've learned to be a better listener. People are not good listeners in general, so it's very, it's a very difficult skill. So being able to listen to someone and get their point of view and get their point, and especially the ones who are very, you know, skeptical. I love them to speak up because they are my balance, counterbalance to my optimism.

So I have to hear them. Otherwise, you know, you fall and make a bigger mistake. So I think. Getting that and then making a decision and being decisive. I think if people keep waffling then the company becomes just as dysfunctional as if they'd To make a decision and then so I think those are some of the more important thing I'm going by one kind of principle that i've run my companies by

Kt: No, I really like that.

I'm a fan of flat organizations and openness and for me personally You know and people who have worked with me know this this is not a new phenomenon, but I operate it by a yes, and principles. [00:29:00] So when we have disagreements, I want to talk it out. I want to understand where you're coming from, because I might be wrong, or I or ideas might be better together.

And I think that there's this back to that black and white and that binary thinking this idea that there is a right answer and a wrong answer. But ultimately, when you have open communication and healthy communication on a team, that is action oriented and leads to a decision. It can help anchor folks in the idea that we are on the same team.

We want the same outcome. It's not about my idea being best and yours being worst. worse or mine being right and yours being wrong. We want the best idea, the best direction to emerge. And so that's a tool that I use is instead of no, but, which is me advocating for no, not what you said, but what I say,

Navroze: it's

Kt: a good way to say like, yes, I hear you.

And this is what I have in response to that or in relation to that to kind of Move the conversation and the decision [00:30:00] forward while also trying not to keep it, make it adversarial and add tension to what can be a very passionate discussion, especially in purpose led companies, which rounding, we're rounding, getting close to home base.

I came up with the baseball analogy and it fell apart in my brain. It's okay. I am authenticity all the time. So I will admit that last question, choosing to start a company is a big decision. It's hard work. Choosing to work and to give not just your time and talents, sometimes capital, relationships, all of that, towards a purpose is an added layer of difficulty.

So question eight, the final one of the podcast. So what is your least favorite thing about your job and what is the best? the best part of what you do.

Navroze: I'd say the worst thing about the [00:31:00] job is not having more time in the day to spend more time in, in working with all aspects. So for me, because I've run, I'm running multiple companies, I've got three different companies that I'm the chairman of.

So not having that time to me would, I would have to say, is the one that, Bothers me the most is like I've probably and so and and in dealing with the consequences of that and also like things that are kind of out of your control that you don't believe, uh, you know, uh, that you Might have been able to solve if you had a little more time or whatever that bother you.

So those are, that's, you know, anything that's out of your control causes you more stress, obviously. So, um, I think, um, and the best part of it is, is actually the people. Like, you know, and solving the, you know, solving great, you know, problems, but also coming up with great [00:32:00] solutions with people you love working with.

I have a great rule now that I don't really work with people that I don't enjoy anymore. I can afford to do that. So I don't believe in spending my, you know, life short and you want to work with people you really enjoy. So, I keep that guiding principle. And so everything I do, I really enjoy, you know, so that's the best.

The best part is like having a mission and like, whether it be in my healthcare companies working on getting a screener for colorectal cancer that saves lives, or whether it's Mela changing the ecosystem and the empowerment. paradigm for artisans in India. I think whatever that might be, it's, you want to leave a footprint that's meaningful and I feel if you are doing that and you're changing, you know, you're making a difference, I think that's what's the most gratifying and motivating part and you're doing it with people you have fun doing it with.

Kt: That like summed up the people who, who [00:33:00] are part of our community and who listen to this podcast and who, who find ways to work together or to learn from each other. I think you summed that up so beautifully and I can say, say that it is fun to work with you as someone who has, um, and for the candor and for the transparency.

It's, this, this podcast is a little deviation from, from the norm, which is part of, part of my purpose. Um, is to ask questions. So thank you for allowing me to ask questions and giving some of your precious time to share with all of us here. We will be sure to link to Mela Artisans in the show notes.

Where's the best way to follow what you're doing across all of the different purposes that you're serving?

Navroze: MelaArtisans can be certainly followed at MelaArtisans. com. Um, and I work in, like, I'm doing a lot of work in, um, colorectal cancer screening, etc. That can be followed on NewDayDiagnostics. com. And generally, uh, you could follow me on LinkedIn.

Um, and, um, [00:34:00] yeah, and if anyone wants to keep in touch with me personally, they can always email me, of course, also at nmehta at melaartisans. com.

Kt: Thank you again. And for everybody out there, let's keep working hard, caring hard, and working towards more purpose.

Navroze: Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.